TheSamba.com :: View topic

Thu Jun 25, 2015 3:47 pm

i have been looking for a new battery my solar system and i found these
ub (univeral battery brand), trojan, etc. has anyone tried the ub brand? what is your opinion? the trojans are a $100 more for the same sealed agm battery. any suggestions. any help is appreciated.

Fri Jun 26, 2015 12:18 am

Is this a solar only AGM battery?

I say this because all AGM's appreciate the occasional higher AMG recharge from a depleted level.

Generally low and slow, solar only, recharges will not keep an AGM as happy as a higher charge rate from the alternator, or a grid powered charger, then the battery finished off via the low and slow solar.

Bottom of the Line AGM battery, In my opinion, is the Universal battery often rebranded. They do not have high CCA of other AGMS, nor low self discharge, and cannot safely accept more amperage than 30% of their 20Hr capacity rating. They also might be quite old and already capacity compromised when purchased online.

A good AGM battery is the East Penn/ Deka Intimidator, rebranded by Costco and Sams club and some other outfits. Might be rebranded as duracells.

These also say to limit charging amps to no more than 30 per 100 AH capacity.

Better, debatably, is the Full River AGM. These are also Asian made but to a higher standard.

Both Trojan and USbattery make AGM batteries. I'm putting these in the middle but with no data or any Idea how well robust they are, or not.

Enerysys. Odyssey batteries are great batteries, but they do not make good solar only batteries as they require a 40% charge rate when deeply cycled. 40 amps for every 100AH of capacity. 100 watts of solar will give you about 5 amps. Can you feed this hypothetical Odyssey group31 battery 40 Amps for about an hour when it is depleted to 50%? If not, pass.

Northstar AGM is very similar to Odyssey, Cycleable but super high CCA figures too for violent engine cranking. I am extremely impressed with my group 27 Northstar AGM, but I do not cycle it when i do not have enough driving to do to feed it 40+ amps, or can employ my 40 amp charger. 200 watts of low and slow solar only recharging is not good for the Northstar AGM and I can watch the voltage walk down cycle after cycle on a solar only recharge. It wakes back up when fed 40 amps until 14.5v is reached and held at the battery terminals for about 4 hours.

Northstar AGM batteries are rebranded as X2 power at Batteries+.

But then I got a group 31 Lifeline AGM the GPL-31XT (125AH) by Concorde for a project for someone else. These AGm batteries are built around one purpose, which is Cycling, deeply. They have the thickest positive plates of any AGM battery and this is a mark of a great deep cycle battery, AGM or flooded.
They require a minimum of 20 amps per 100AH capacity. If they are not fed this , or more amperage, after so many cycles they also get petulant. Lifeline batteries can be subjected to the occasional forced overcharge to restore lost capacity, but it requires some special equipment and monitoring it for 8 hours to achieve this reconditioning charge. No other AGM manufacturer says this is acceptable.

I load tested this Lifeline AGM the first night I received it. I took 63AH from it in 8 hours. Voltage rebounded to 12.37 6 hours after load was removed.

Lifeline says the rested 50% charged open circuit voltage is 12.19V. So I took more than 50% the rated amp hours out of the battery at a higher average amp load at which it achieved that 125AH rating, and the voltage rebounded significantly higher than expected. I recharged it 5 days ago on a 45 amp charger at 14.4V until it was accepting only 0.8 amps. I took about 5 AH from it powering a 20 amp compressor, and the Voltage is still holding 13.07v

I am very impressed with its case and terminal construction and its performance in a Fast discharge to 50%

If you need a TOP DOG AGM battery, and can feed it properly, then the Lifeline AGM cannot be beat, and you pay $$$ for it.

I do not think Optima batteries are good for deep cycle applications. their spiral cell design, limits available capacity. A rectangular battery can have 25 to 33% more Capacity for the same size space displacement. The casing and cell design of Optima batteries makes them good in extreme vibration environments, or where the battery case will be subject to extreme loads. This is the only area where I see the spiral cell design as being superior and I do not think they are of the same quality they were pre 2004 or so.

All batteries require proper recharging to last a respectable lifespan. AGMs vary quite widely in their requirements to achieve a respectable lifespan as to absorption voltage and minimum or maximum bulk recharge currents. AGMs tend to get broadly painted with the same brush as to their charging requirements, but falsely.

Too often AGMs disappoint, as they are no more resistant to poor recharging habits than flooded batteries, and they might very well be less tolerant of poor recharging. Since they cost 2 to 3x as much, the purchaser might impart them with magical powers, and they then tend to be the most vocal when they fail prematurely, through their own poor recharging habits.

Fri Jun 26, 2015 6:35 am

it is solar only battery used only for appliances and etc. in van. i use a morningstar tri star 45 charge controller.

Fri Jun 26, 2015 10:28 am

If solar only then eliminate the highest dollar AGM's and go for the Deka Intimidator.

If you can give it occassional higher charging amps~ 20 to 25 amps, assuming group 27 size, from a well depleted state it will be a happier, longer lived battery.

Fri Jun 26, 2015 12:44 pm

yep group 27 is what i have now but a non sealed lead acid. so it looks like i will go for the deka price is reasonable compared to trojan, exide etc.
thanks for the info.

Fri Jun 26, 2015 12:53 pm

Trojan is a higher-end battery than Deka, very competitively priced. I bought 3 - T1275s for my Sprinter project far cheaper than the Deka dealer could offer the same amount of storage. Lifeline also isn't all that expensive if you shop around and compare prices per ah with the Odyssey and other <100ah batteries. For instance, a Lifeline 27 (100ah) can often be found for the same price as the Odyssey 1750 (74ah).

Fri Jun 26, 2015 12:54 pm

Why are there no available battery packs that use Li-Ion 18650 batteries? I would think these would be ideal for a low-amperage solar solution. Furthermore, I'm space-constrained because I want to keep my battery in the aux location, so the density would be ideal.

Fri Jun 26, 2015 1:19 pm

3 trojan T-1275's in parallel make for quite the battery bank!

The T-1275s are real 12v Deep cycle batteries. Any of the standard group sizes like 24 or 27 or 31 are either just starting batteries, marine batteries, or quasi deep cycle batteries. Their plates are not as thick as a true deep cycle 'scrubber' battery, and as such they cannot sustain the abuse that a real deep cycle battery can.

A marine battery can be deep cycled, but is not a deep cycle battery. despite the sticker saying so.
The quasi deep cycle batteries are a notch or three above a marine battery, but a real deep cycle battery like a golf cart or a scrubber battery are a notch or 4 above a quasi deep cycle battery in terms of not only resistance to abuse, but in the how hard it is to really fully reharge them.

The quasi flooded deep cycles seem to require more time at higher voltages in the absorption stage, and this might be due to too much lead stuffed into a jar size which does not accommodate enough electrolyte for the chemical reaction to occur efficiently.
So while charging to 95% only, is not good for such a battery, charging to 100% is also abusive due to the time it requires and excess KWH passed through the battery for it to attain maximum specific gravity and a true 100% state of charge.

I am making modifications to accommodate a T-1275 as my next battery

The Lifeline GPL-31XT cost 410$ delivered with core charge and Ca sales tax.

I can get a t-1275 for 175$ before tax.

I do believe Trojan makes absolute top quality Flooded batteries, but I do not know how their AGMS compare to other manufacturers.

As always, whatever battery you purchase, try and find the manufacturer recommended charging profile, and try to meet it.

Solar's low and slow only, on a deeply cycled AGM is hardly ideal. How detrimental it will be is an unknown, but it can be mitigated to some degree by the occasional use of a higher amp recharging source when the battery is depleted.

The Top dog AGMs like lifeline Odyssey and Northstar all list maximum charging amps up in the unattainable area, like 350 amps for a lifeline 31 or 500 amps for the Odyssey 31. Lifeline outright says the higher the amps, the better. Odyssey says 40% or else. Northstar does not state an exact minimum bulk amp, but my 27 responds more favorable to 40 amps than it does to 25 amps.