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Spike0180 Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:06 am

So, I recently purchased a 1970 vw Transporter. No rear seats, had recently had new carbs (with setup), and shifter work. But the guy had it primed, I knew it was bad. Didn't know it was this bad. Anyways everything10" down is being replaced. I have most the parts now and I'm workin on getting it all together.

The engine is a type 4 duel carb out of a 1973 bus, with what I think is the matching transmission. It's a 002. I'm missing a tin piece on the driver side of the engine and an engine seal but I live in Michigan so I'm thinking I'll wait on purchasing those till spring... It's like we'll below freezing here all winter and I probably won't drive it much this winter.

Anyways, here are some pictures. Let me know what you think.



Tcash Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:50 am

Welcome to TheSamba!

Tcash wrote: Here is a little information. Good Luck

Pictures would be cool.
How to post photos/How to post a photo in the Forums

Pronunciation (Samba) English

I am thinking of buying a VW van
Cleaning+Rodents+Hantavirus
Up in smoke... Bus fires... don't let it happen to you!
M-Plate Location
M-Plate Decoder Volkswagen Type 2 Bus
Bus VIN / Chassis Numbers
Type 2/Bus Owner's Manuals
Bus repair manuals
Bus parts manuals
Early Baywindow Bus Parts Book
Late Baywindow Bus Parts Fiche
Type 2 Wiring Diagrams
Model and Year Variations
Type 4: Secrets Revealed
Distributor Parts & Specifications
PARTS INTERCHANGE MANUAL
Youtube Videos

There is a ton of information located at the top of the Forum section.

Tcash Wed Aug 26, 2015 10:51 am

Tcash wrote: Rust Repair Links
Bobs bay westy rust repair
70 camper rust repair
the windsheild rust repair continues..........picts

I would suggest at least one of these books on the subject. If not both.
How to restore Volkswagen (bay window) Bus - Enthusiast's Restoration Manual
Volkswagen Bay Transporter Restoration Manual

Manuals
thanks to jerseylooker.
Early Baywindow Bus Parts Book
Late Baywindow Bus Parts Fiche
thanks to mayor ratwell.
VW Microfiches for Type 2 1968-1979
thanks to Samba members.
VW Type 2 / Bus Crash Estimate Guide
VW Bus Cavity Preservation - March, 1972

jtauxe Wed Aug 26, 2015 11:12 am

Aww, but that primer looked so nice! :roll:

I'll be watching, as I also have a new to me bus that needs a similar amount of work:
http://vw.tauxe.net/jellybean

Spike0180 Thu Aug 27, 2015 5:45 am

jtauxe wrote: Aww, but that primer looked so nice! :roll:

I'll be watching, as I also have a new to me bus that needs a similar amount of work:
http://vw.tauxe.net/jellybean

Yes, very similar. I'll be watching your too. My Seats are in much better shape than yours. And I have no radio, I had one and tossed it 😣 also had a pretty good headliner that I tore out. Not overly upset about that though. It smelled pretty bad. But looks like we have the same engine though. Yours has the filter and external oil cooler from factory?

Spike0180 Fri Aug 28, 2015 10:15 am

Got both rockers, and outer panels on the van last night. All welded up, and I duraglassed the welds later that night to prevent rust. But, fits pretty nice. I'm really excited to finish this project! There is still so much to do.


zoobum Fri Aug 28, 2015 10:31 am

Damn dude, looking pretty good with those welds. Waiting to see more!!

mlesniak Fri Aug 28, 2015 10:32 am

cool bus project! keep us posted brotha! :)

jtauxe Fri Aug 28, 2015 10:41 am

Spike0180 wrote: jtauxe wrote: Aww, but that primer looked so nice! :roll:

I'll be watching, as I also have a new to me bus that needs a similar amount of work:
http://vw.tauxe.net/jellybean

Yes, very similar. I'll be watching your too. My Seats are in much better shape than yours. And I have no radio, I had one and tossed it also had a pretty good headliner that I tore out. Not overly upset about that though. It smelled pretty bad. But looks like we have the same engine though. Yours has the filter and external oil cooler from factory?
No external cooler, and the standard Type IV filter. But the engine is original to the bus, I do believe! The seats will get all new upholstery.

I am impressed with how you are getting right after all that welding. I am totally intimidated by that, having never really welded before. I've got me a little MIG welder, and have had a lesson, but I think the first thing I need to do is practice on some old junk panels that I have. Next summer, maybe? :roll:

Spike0180 Fri Aug 28, 2015 6:08 pm

jtauxe wrote: Spike0180 wrote: jtauxe wrote: Aww, but that primer looked so nice! :roll:

I'll be watching, as I also have a new to me bus that needs a similar amount of work:
http://vw.tauxe.net/jellybean

Yes, very similar. I'll be watching your too. My Seats are in much better shape than yours. And I have no radio, I had one and tossed it also had a pretty good headliner that I tore out. Not overly upset about that though. It smelled pretty bad. But looks like we have the same engine though. Yours has the filter and external oil cooler from factory?
No external cooler, and the standard Type IV filter. But the engine is original to the bus, I do believe! The seats will get all new upholstery.

I am impressed with how you are getting right after all that welding. I am totally intimidated by that, having never really welded before. I've got me a little MIG welder, and have had a lesson, but I think the first thing I need to do is practice on some old junk panels that I have. Next summer, maybe? :roll:

Honestly, I've been doing prep work for like two Months now. And finally got to the point where I was like I just gotta get done. So I started in the hidden places, and did lots of grinding back off my welds lol. Take your time and you'll do fine. Besides no one will see em when it's all done.

Wasted youth Fri Aug 28, 2015 11:26 pm

That's the first time I've seen anyone put a Type 4 into an early Baywindow. 8) I think the Type 4 is an improved design, but some parts are hard to find. Can we see some more engine compartment porn?

X2 on you good for getting after the steelwork. :D I see you are using Gerson panels? They have a good reputation for fitment. Are you using a gas setup with the wire-feed, or are you going core wire?

Take care of those hubcaps around the steel work. Around here VW re-pops are kind of hard to get with the VW logo. Most of the re-pops are without the logo. Originals in good shape usually get more than $20-30 each.

Spike0180 Sat Aug 29, 2015 8:00 am

Wasted youth wrote: That's the first time I've seen anyone put a Type 4 into an early Baywindow. 8) I think the Type 4 is an improved design, but some parts are hard to find. Can we see some more engine compartment porn?

X2 on you good for getting after the steelwork. :D I see you are using Gerson panels? They have a good reputation for fitment. Are you using a gas setup with the wire-feed, or are you going core wire?

Take care of those hubcaps around the steel work. Around here VW re-pops are kind of hard to get with the VW logo. Most of the re-pops are without the logo. Originals in good shape usually get more than $20-30 each.

Thanks, and the bus came with that engine, professionally set up too with new carbs and heater boxes. The panels are from klassic fab. And they fit awesome! I have stuff from other places and they are Crap in comparison. And welding is gas with wire feed. I'll get engine pictures up later tonight or tomorrow.

cmonSTART Sat Aug 29, 2015 11:05 am

Nice work! Come do mine next!

Spike0180 Sat Aug 29, 2015 11:45 am

Wasted youth wrote: That's the first time I've seen anyone put a Type 4 into an early Baywindow. 8) I think the Type 4 is an improved design, but some parts are hard to find. Can we see some more engine compartment porn?

X2 on you good for getting after the steelwork. :D I see you are using Gerson panels? They have a good reputation for fitment. Are you using a gas setup with the wire-feed, or are you going core wire?

Take care of those hubcaps around the steel work. Around here VW re-pops are kind of hard to get with the VW logo. Most of the re-pops are without the logo. Originals in good shape usually get more than $20-30 each.

A little engine porn, I'm sure I'll have some cooling things to sort out. And Ima be doing some rewiring as you can see it needs, but it purs like a kitten.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/1397127.jpg

Wasted youth Sat Aug 29, 2015 11:04 pm

So you do say you have some cooling tin work to attend to. I agree. It might be a challenge to get it all sealed up correctly. There are kits available to 'tin up' a Type 1 into a Type 4 compartment, but I am unaware of parts fitting a Type 4 into a Type 1 compartment. I am sure you can think of something, though.

Here is my philosophy on air path, you may disagree on the details. And... this is quoted from a reply I made on another thread, so some of this doesn't apply to you. Just the basic idea of correct cooling air flow. And :shock: although it sounds condescending, it is NOT meant that way!

Wasted youth wrote: :idea: Think of the airflow like this: from the top of the bus, where air is coolest, into the left and right scoops. At highway speeds, think of how hard your engine is working, then think about the volume and pressure of that cooler air coming into the compartment. It should go from the scoops, into the side plenums, and then down to just two places: The intake for fuel air combustion, and the cooling fan intake. It should NOT pass through little holes in your tinwork, around rotten seals, and certainly not bypass through missing tin. You should not leave your engine deck lid open while driving. And, the air flow scoops as designed do not need to be enhanced.

The pressured high volume cooling air now passes over the top portions of the piston cylinders, valve guide tubes, the oil cooler and portions of the cylinder heads in varying percentages and evenly distributed based on what VW engineers determined. This volume is also thermostatically controlled to help maintain an even curve of engine temperature. This is an engine built with a steel crankshaft and flywheel, and lightweight and dissimilar metals. The expansion and contraction rates vary widely, and thermal cracking is encouraged by rapid cooling and heating... something that should be avoided.

Once that air has done its job, it continues its downward flow, and discharges towards the pavement directly under the engine, where the swift moving bus leaves it behind in its wake.

It should NEVER be sucked back in after it has done its job; not through the deck lid because the gasket is missing, not back through anywhere. It should have a completely unimpeded path based on original planned flow. No chunks of crap and debris packed around your cylinder cooling fins because the intake screen was left off, and certainly not troubled by mouse nests or stored seed pods.

These last two reasons are just more argument for dropping an unknown engine out before you run it. I learned that first hand... you can't see what critters have packed in there if all the tin is in place. :x

Now think about that same process while you are sitting in traffic on a hot summer day. Not one iota of that hot, discharged cooling air can be allowed to get sucked back into the compartment by the energy of the idling cooling fan's vacuum effect. If so, that now heated air will be drawn into both the fuel air mixture ( not so much a problem) and the cooling air path... while you are sitting in bumper to bumper traffic on a hot day (more of a problem), and begin to overheat in a cascading effect as the hot engine continues to drawn in ever hotter cooling air.

1967250s Sat Aug 29, 2015 11:55 pm

Sorta what Wasted says, be sure to seal up all the openings from below the normal sheetmetal. Imagine this, all that area from the bottom of the Bus far outstrips the area of the scoops, so any air from the bottom overwhelms the cool air and you get lots of hot air into the fan.
Very nice sheetmetal work, BTW. You sure don't screw around. What welder setup do you use? And how did you cut those nice straight lines?

Spike0180 Sun Aug 30, 2015 7:11 pm

cmonSTART wrote: Nice work! Come do mine next!

If you're serious I can ask the shop I'm working out of if they want some extra work. My friend who is helping me is way better than I am, and excellent with detailed work like this. He is guiding me through and doing the technical stuff, I do lots of the "crap" work.

They don't do off body restorations though, just on body.

Spike0180 Mon Aug 31, 2015 7:20 am

Wasted youth wrote: So you do say you have some cooling tin work to attend to. I agree. It might be a challenge to get it all sealed up correctly. There are kits available to 'tin up' a Type 1 into a Type 4 compartment, but I am unaware of parts fitting a Type 4 into a Type 1 compartment. I am sure you can think of something, though.

Here is my philosophy on air path, you may disagree on the details. And... this is quoted from a reply I made on another thread, so some of this doesn't apply to you. Just the basic idea of correct cooling air flow. And :shock: although it sounds condescending, it is NOT meant that way!

Wasted youth wrote: :idea: Think of the airflow like this: from the top of the bus, where air is coolest, into the left and right scoops. At highway speeds, think of how hard your engine is working, then think about the volume and pressure of that cooler air coming into the compartment. It should go from the scoops, into the side plenums, and then down to just two places: The intake for fuel air combustion, and the cooling fan intake. It should NOT pass through little holes in your tinwork, around rotten seals, and certainly not bypass through missing tin. You should not leave your engine deck lid open while driving. And, the air flow scoops as designed do not need to be enhanced.

The pressured high volume cooling air now passes over the top portions of the piston cylinders, valve guide tubes, the oil cooler and portions of the cylinder heads in varying percentages and evenly distributed based on what VW engineers determined. This volume is also thermostatically controlled to help maintain an even curve of engine temperature. This is an engine built with a steel crankshaft and flywheel, and lightweight and dissimilar metals. The expansion and contraction rates vary widely, and thermal cracking is encouraged by rapid cooling and heating... something that should be avoided.

Once that air has done its job, it continues its downward flow, and discharges towards the pavement directly under the engine, where the swift moving bus leaves it behind in its wake.

It should NEVER be sucked back in after it has done its job; not through the deck lid because the gasket is missing, not back through anywhere. It should have a completely unimpeded path based on original planned flow. No chunks of crap and debris packed around your cylinder cooling fins because the intake screen was left off, and certainly not troubled by mouse nests or stored seed pods.

These last two reasons are just more argument for dropping an unknown engine out before you run it. I learned that first hand... you can't see what critters have packed in there if all the tin is in place. :x

Now think about that same process while you are sitting in traffic on a hot summer day. Not one iota of that hot, discharged cooling air can be allowed to get sucked back into the compartment by the energy of the idling cooling fan's vacuum effect. If so, that now heated air will be drawn into both the fuel air mixture ( not so much a problem) and the cooling air path... while you are sitting in bumper to bumper traffic on a hot day (more of a problem), and begin to overheat in a cascading effect as the hot engine continues to drawn in ever hotter cooling air.

Thanks for the post! I'll probably fabricate a lot of the tin myself. And just seal it up good. I also plan on wrapping my exhaust to help keep the temp down a little. Other than that little be a trial and error kind of thing with watching my oil temp like a fiend for a while.

Spike0180 Mon Aug 31, 2015 7:26 am

1967250s wrote: Sorta what Wasted says, be sure to seal up all the openings from below the normal sheetmetal. Imagine this, all that area from the bottom of the Bus far outstrips the area of the scoops, so any air from the bottom overwhelms the cool air and you get lots of hot air into the fan.
Very nice sheetmetal work, BTW. You sure don't screw around. What welder setup do you use? And how did you cut those nice straight lines?

Yep, you can see my reply above for my plan on airflow, it'll be tough. As far as welding I'm using a MIG welder. And I'm using a hand held grinder for those cuts. I do a little cleaning after the initial cut.

Spike0180 Mon Aug 31, 2015 7:32 am

A few pics from Saturdays work. Before we cleaned it all up. There was priming and water proofing after this point.




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