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Thu Sep 03, 2015 3:49 pm

Hello Samba folks!
I am in the market for my first Westfalia. Its been a long time dream of mine, and now i finally have the cash to buy one!
So here is my issue. I know i want a water cooled over an air-cooled as i plan to do longer trips into less forgiving country. That being said, i have garnered as much information as i can regarding the WBX and people's preferences. The 84/85 obviously has its proponents and it opponents. However, i like the price range and the look. (nice cony earth toned interior, etc.) It seems that the HP in 85 vs 86 is also negligible at best. I also hear that the transaxle is better in the 84/85 than the later models. I know tat the cooling system is better in the later models, but is it really THAT much better? (am i going to see more mechanical issues? better performance?)

I have found an 84 with a rebuilt transaxle, an Vanistan 2.2L engine, oil cooler, etc. though a lot of rust issues.

The other is an 84 with a rebuilt engine, new paint and a nice stock look.

So my question is, am i really going wrong with an 84 1.9L? am i going to be supremely disappointed or is it just going to be slow going?

Also, am i taking a huge chance with a bus that has had a lot of engine/transaxle work done to it? (as well as a moderate amount of rust)

Sorry, lots of questions. Just trying to get my bearings in a strange new world. Figured i would take a chance and ask the elders.[/i]

Thu Sep 03, 2015 4:06 pm

i think you would do better to avoid the rust. rust may look like its not bad, but it is usually much worse than first glance would tell you. mitigating rust is very involved.

i say buy the van in the best mechanical condition and the best overall condition that you can afford. there is nothing more expensive than a bargain westy.

and if you are like some of us, your first westy will not be your last westy.
chris

Thu Sep 03, 2015 4:20 pm

my first advice - Don't

get something reliable instead

but you have a dream, so the '86 has a 2.1L motor and the nice cony earth toned interior

not a huge advance over an 84, 85

do avoid rust - look at 10 buy 1

Thu Sep 03, 2015 4:42 pm

Spend some time in the FAQ's. There are a bunch of good topics and what to compare. Welcome to the samba. :D

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6236040#6236040

In general I stay away from rust since I am somewhat able to deal with mechanical issues. Rust never sleeps...

Thu Sep 03, 2015 4:53 pm

Rust never sleeps. It seems i have heard that sentiment over and over.
Thanks for all of the advice!
I can turn a wrench, so i think i might be good.

So what I'm hearing is, get a bus mechanically sound and rust free.

I just wanna get out, hit the dirt, know that i don't have to get a tent set up and enjoy my place in the world.

Thu Sep 03, 2015 5:00 pm

Welcome!

No rust

Thu Sep 03, 2015 5:07 pm

Buy as nice a van as you can, find one that has been loved.

The later models tend to be improved over the earlier models but you can get really good deals on earlier models. If you have the need for speed then you are barking up the wrong tree anyway so don't worry too much about having an 1.9 vs 2.1.

Personally, I wish I had a better paint job because that is the one thing that I will have to pay someone else to do. The mechanical work I can do myself.

Thu Sep 03, 2015 5:12 pm

bosstyn wrote: Rust never sleeps. It seems i have heard that sentiment over and over.
Thanks for all of the advice!
I can turn a wrench, so i think i might be good.

So what I'm hearing is, get a bus mechanically sound and rust free.

I just wanna get out, hit the dirt, know that i don't have to get a tent set up and enjoy my place in the world.

I'd not worry too much on the mechanical stuff if it is in the realm of your wrench abilities. This forum is happy to help you through any issues.

Some mechanical difficulties often lower the price more than it would cost for you to fix by turning that wrench... :D

Thu Sep 03, 2015 5:35 pm

Thanks Dobryan.
There appears to be a lot of helpful, friendly people on the Samba!
Thank you again!

Thu Sep 03, 2015 5:51 pm

as mentioned above, avoid rust and rot as much as you can! this is with any vehicle. mechanical stuff can be fixed rather easy, its not an art. fixing rot and rust correctly is an art, and many people try and do it incorrectly. i suck at body work, so i get the cleanest body i can get and worry about mechanics after. that being said, i avoid painted vehicles almost as fast as rotted vehicles. you can usually spot when shotty mechanical fixes have happened. its tough with body work.

Thu Sep 03, 2015 5:51 pm

Choose by the condition of the body, everything else is easily repaired or replaced. Repairing rust could be costlier than replacing a motor.I have both 2.1 and 1.9 's and I like my 1.9 better it seems peppier

Sat Sep 05, 2015 7:44 am

Yep, pretty universal opinion here - no rust, and as good a mechanical condition as you can.

Don't be in a hurry to buy - there will always be another one for sale soon, so don't 'settle' because you just want to start owning one.

I always seem to buy ones that need engines, or transmissions, or lots of mechanical work to get a low price, and put my sweat equity into it, but the older I get, the more I think I should just buy something better to start with and be able to start using it!

Sat Sep 05, 2015 8:02 am

" I also hear that the transaxle is better in the 84/85 than the later models"

I have never heard this , in fact I have heard the opposite , something about an improved 3 4 slider in the 89 and up westys.

I love love love that brown upholstery but dont care for the brown dash and steering wheel. Just be sure to stay away from corduroy.

Vanistan motor with a rusty body is a conundrum indeed, I dont fear the rust as much as some do , but I live in the high desert where it seems to stop in its tracks.

Sat Sep 05, 2015 11:17 am

Whether you get a 1.9 or a 2.1 change all your fuel lines so your new van won't spontaneously combust! Welcome to the samba!

Sat Sep 05, 2015 11:34 am

Some consider the earlier wbx ring and pinion to be stronger. The updated 3/4 slider hub could already be in any tranny that has been rebuilt and by now a lot of them have been rebuilt. I wouldn't factor in either of these tranny variations in deciding which year or van to buy. Get the best 85+ body you can afford is my advice.

Mark

Tobias Duncan wrote: " I also hear that the transaxle is better in the 84/85 than the later models"

I have never heard this , in fact I have heard the opposite , something about an improved 3 4 slider in the 89 and up westys......

Sat Sep 05, 2015 12:08 pm

Our 84 was awesome - little motor still going strong (sold it to a family member), we still regret selling it.

Since then have had a 2.1, EJ22, and a 1.9TD (AAZ). The 1.9 WBX wasn't as fast, but that little motor just goes and goes. The interior updates in 86 are not really that big a deal. The integrated curtain tracks are nice, and the sliding door works a bit better, but in some ways I prefer the simplicity of the curtain "rail" in the earlier model and the sliding door difference is small..

The newer model also came with the square lights. I prefer the earlier round because they're easier to update to E-Code and overwattage bulbs...

The only other thing that comes to mind is the newer vans having the updated fuse box, but that's not really a deal-breaker either...

As far as the trannys go, at some point they'll all need a rebuild. I can tell no difference driving an 84 vs a 90...

tldr; Don't buy the rusty one.

Sat Sep 05, 2015 2:03 pm

Indeed the bus with the vanistan motor is/was a conundrum. It has some cancerous rust around a couple of the window seals, which makes me think "what kind of rust is there on the inside of the body. If i had a shop, id be happy to get elbow deep into a van, but alas, i live in santa barbara and if you want a house with a shop, well, you need Oprah money.

All the advice has been great!
its really helped me narrow down what i like/dont like and what is practical/smart.

Now.......if i hadn't found the subaru conversion in a 1990 bus, my life would have been much simpler. But thats a topic for another thread. (subaru conversion and Cali smog issue)

Sun Sep 06, 2015 6:32 am

iliketowalk wrote: Our 84 was awesome - little motor still going strong (sold it to a family member), we still regret selling it.

Since then have had a 2.1, EJ22, and a 1.9TD (AAZ). The 1.9 WBX wasn't as fast, but that little motor just goes and goes. The interior updates in 86 are not really that big a deal. The integrated curtain tracks are nice, and the sliding door works a bit better, but in some ways I prefer the simplicity of the curtain "rail" in the earlier model and the sliding door difference is small..

The newer model also came with the square lights. I prefer the earlier round because they're easier to update to E-Code and overwattage bulbs...

The only other thing that comes to mind is the newer vans having the updated fuse box, but that's not really a deal-breaker either...
I have owned 3 84's, one a driver over 12 yrs, after tweeking the eng 4 it's max it got around just fine & after a thorough going over at 1st, it always brought us home without any major problems. Looking at another 84gl with blown eng (i have a good 1.9) to be another one 4 major travels, roomy,comfortable, much simpler than the newer brand x's that i won't touch except 4 the minor things,as usual no warranty offered at this time.
As far as the trannys go, at some point they'll all need a rebuild. I can tell no difference driving an 84 vs a 90...

tldr; Don't buy the rusty one.