TheSamba.com :: View topic

Tue Oct 13, 2015 11:40 am

Right...so...

Finally have some time to start a thread about the never ending adventures with me and my '66 Notchback. mind you...these are not 'driving adventures' haha!

First of all, my name is Niels and i'm from a small unknown (even for dutch people) village in The Netherlands (near Amsterdam).
Have been into vw's almost all my life and i have owned a bunch from Golf's to beetles to now a '66 Notchback wich i have owned for 5 years now.

Purchased it at a pretty decent price just over the border in Germany..

Pretty straight and rust free car, just needed paint and some (very minor) welding. (and it had a insane ugly "racing stripe" sticker that needed to go!)

Owner said it needed "Tuning" because it ran a bit rough, but for the price i paid for it, i bought it anyway.

Did a quick adjust on the engine and a spraycan paintjob and drove it to one meeting in The UK the year after that.

It never ran very good with the original dual Solex setup, so i had them refurbished by a local guy... but that didn't really help.. so i decided to pull the engine out and give it a 1641cc upgrade with a 009 ignition.

And painted the red bits again, but this time with a compressor and a paintgun:

And after a bunch of wheel changes and decisions about looks and stuff, it looks like this today:

But even after the 1641cc upgrade it still didnt run like it should run.
So bigger is alway better right? I decided to bolt some Dual 36mm Dellorto's on to it and have it tuned proper by people who do it for a living..

Now here's the Kicker... it still runs like crap! i got it back from the people who tuned it with a message that i should change the jetsizes on the Dell's and that that would do the trick.. well it really didn't.

But after getting a reply from the people who "tuned" it, that "it ran fine when we had it" even with a dodgy jet setup. i got really tired of it all and left it for a while..

Brings me to current day!

I'm a idiot, let's start by saying that... Mainly because i haven't got much experience in working on these engines and because instead of doing some proper research on why this engine is running so poorly.. i bought another 1600 Type 3 engine two weeks ago...
But guess what... it's a fuelinjected one.
So i'm currently in the process of disassembling this 1600 FI to convert it to my dual Dellorto setup in the hopes of having an engine wich will let me finally get some miles on it next year!!

I have a bunch of questions regarding that, so that's why i started this thread... to get some more info about first: me converting this 1600FI into a Carbed one.. (i have already found out that the heads are different and can i just plug these off, or is this never going to work?!?) and second: i have some alternator issues as well.. but that's going to be my next project after i finished the Engine stuff!

Thank's for reading, plans change every minute with me, so i might just bail on the whole second engine thing and get a second opinion by people who know more about VW engines then i currently do.

Tue Oct 13, 2015 11:43 am

Neils, give us some details on the exact engine problems you are experiencing.

Tue Oct 13, 2015 11:52 am

Tram:

It's backfiring out of the left cillinder section (3 and 4) and whatever i do, i can't get the iginition timed properly.

It's either backfiring out of the left manifold (or head?) or it's backfiring out of the exhaust (or both) and usually just beyond idling speed/revs. and beyond.

The Haynes manual i got for it, says it should have 7,5 degrees on it, but thats not accurate in real life, because it keeps backfiring at whatever degree.

Thank's!

Tue Oct 13, 2015 12:02 pm

true backfire out of the carbs, or popping out of the exhaust?

Are you sure your spark plug wires are in the right order, and are good? If you wait till night time to run it, turn all the lights in the garage off, and look for sparks

Tue Oct 13, 2015 12:19 pm

Erik G wrote: true backfire out of the carbs, or popping out of the exhaust?

Are you sure your spark plug wires are in the right order, and are good? If you wait till night time to run it, turn all the lights in the garage off, and look for sparks

Yep, they're definatly in the right order.. i couldn't say if they're right.. they're not new, i can't really even remember if they are the ones that came with it.

I have a complete new set of sparkplug wires i bought last week. but i would have to take the engine out to replace them.. there's hardly any room to move around with those huge manifolds..

Tue Oct 13, 2015 12:38 pm

Ordo wrote: Erik G wrote: true backfire out of the carbs, or popping out of the exhaust?

Are you sure your spark plug wires are in the right order, and are good? If you wait till night time to run it, turn all the lights in the garage off, and look for sparks

Yep, they're definatly in the right order.. i couldn't say if they're right.. they're not new, i can't really even remember if they are the ones that came with it.

I have a complete new set of sparkplug wires i bought last week. but i would have to take the engine out to replace them.. there's hardly any room to move around with those huge manifolds..

Has the car always had the same issue in spite of engine upgrades and replacement?

Tue Oct 13, 2015 12:51 pm

Tram wrote:
Has the car always had the same issue in spite of engine upgrades and replacement?

In one way or another yes i guess it has.

Tue Oct 13, 2015 1:09 pm

Quote: i got it back from the people who tuned it with a message that i should change the jet sizes on the Dell's and that that would do the trick.. well it really didn't.

then they didn't really tune it now did they :roll: I would think you would change the jets if you are a pro tuner.

the 009 isn't doing you any favors with the stock solex, not an upgrade in distributors for sure.

how about a video of how it's running?

Tue Oct 13, 2015 1:13 pm

Ah... 009. I was wondering about that.

The way to tune the 009 is to set it to 30 degrees before top dead center at 3000 RPM, and let the idle timing fall where it may.

Does your FI engine have a distributor?

Tue Oct 13, 2015 1:18 pm

W1K1 wrote: Quote: i got it back from the people who tuned it with a message that i should change the jet sizes on the Dell's and that that would do the trick.. well it really didn't.

then they didn't really tune it now did they :roll: I would think you would change the jets if you are a pro tuner.

My thoughts exactly!! And this coming from one of the better known Aircooled VW garages in the country... something about not being able to order them. I ordered them myself from Dellorto.co.uk and got them a week later no problem.

The 009 is now running with the dual 36mm Dellorto setup.

Will try to get a video up tomorrow.

Thanks!

Tue Oct 13, 2015 1:19 pm

Neils... before doing anything else, fix the charging system issues and get it timed correctly.

Jumping ahead of basic settings (including valve adjustment) plus making certain the ignition and charging systems are in order before moving on to the fuel system is the foolish way to approach this. You have already thrown too much money at it to get nowhere.

One other thing I'd check is the fuel filter, and I would pull the fuel sender and look down into the tank with a flashlight and see if there is any dirt or debris in the tank.

Tue Oct 13, 2015 1:28 pm

Ordo wrote: W1K1 wrote: Quote: i got it back from the people who tuned it with a message that i should change the jet sizes on the Dell's and that that would do the trick.. well it really didn't.

then they didn't really tune it now did they :roll: I would think you would change the jets if you are a pro tuner.

My thoughts exactly!! And this coming from one of the better known Aircooled VW garages in the country... something about not being able to order them. I ordered them myself from Dellorto.co.uk and got them a week later no problem.

The 009 is now running with the dual 36mm Dellorto setup.

Will try to get a video up tomorrow.

Thanks!

They are typical VW guys. We have them here in USA too.

They will work on Beetles all day long, but bring them a Type 3 and they get all wobbly. :lol: I have the crack ace VW guys calling me all the time when they get a Type 3 in.

The other thing you'll notice is they don't like "stock". Everything that came on an original VW is "no good" and needs to be "upgraded"... I don't think 9 out of 10 of these people ever drove a properly running bone- stock VW... if they had, they'd realize how much upgrading just for the sake of upgrading actually sorta sucks. :lol:

It's one thing to want more displacement and more performance... and to do it the right way, but just throwing "bigger and better" in there to "fix" things isn't always better. Sure, a 2110 running on two cylinders will tear the doors off a stock 1600 running on the same 2 cylinders, but damn, fix the problem!!!

Tue Oct 13, 2015 1:36 pm

Tram wrote: Neils... before doing anything else, fix the charging system issues and get it timed correctly.

Jumping ahead of basic settings (including valve adjustment) plus making certain the ignition and charging systems are in order before moving on to the fuel system is the foolish way to approach this. You have already thrown too much money at it to get nowhere.

One other thing I'd check is the fuel filter, and I would pull the fuel sender and look down into the tank with a flashlight and see if there is any dirt or debris in the tank.

The timing is one of the issues here.. It's almost impossible to get it running smoothly on any degree..
Valves have (supposedly) been adjusted when it was at the VW shop along with the ignition points
And i replaced the sparkplugs recently

Ill try to get that new set of sparkplug wires in without pulling the engine out tomorrow.

The charging issue is another thing.. I already replaced the brushes, regulator and even the alternator itself (for the one of the FI engine) and it still reads 12.41v (or less) on the Battery with a running engine.

It's 'just a hobby' i know and i'm learning each day and that's great! But sometimes it's also doing my head in haha!
And i would have never even thought of 'upgrading' if the original setup ran as it should have run! I agree that upgrading just for the sake of upgrading is not always necessary. My last beetle ran a bone stock 1200 industrial engine, wich was the best running Aircooled Vw i ever owned!!

Thank's for all the feedback so far, it's really helpfull and helping me get excited to get back working on it!

Tue Oct 13, 2015 9:10 pm

Sorry to hear your having such a difficult time with your Notch . I own a stock 69 with the dual Solex set up and automatic tranny . I am grateful to those comments about upgrades and modifications . I have resolved to keep my Notch stock , i think to does quite well on 57 hp and I don't expect blazing performance . I think to many VW owners get sucked into the "keeping up with Jones " and they are never happy with the performance of their car .
I think your Notch is very well done ,it has a unique look but still is relatively close to a stock type 3 . Nice job .

Tue Oct 13, 2015 9:38 pm

Ordo wrote: Tram wrote: Neils... before doing anything else, fix the charging system issues and get it timed correctly.

Jumping ahead of basic settings (including valve adjustment) plus making certain the ignition and charging systems are in order before moving on to the fuel system is the foolish way to approach this. You have already thrown too much money at it to get nowhere.

One other thing I'd check is the fuel filter, and I would pull the fuel sender and look down into the tank with a flashlight and see if there is any dirt or debris in the tank.

The timing is one of the issues here.. It's almost impossible to get it running smoothly on any degree..
Valves have (supposedly) been adjusted when it was at the VW shop along with the ignition points
And i replaced the sparkplugs recently

Ill try to get that new set of sparkplug wires in without pulling the engine out tomorrow.

The charging issue is another thing.. I already replaced the brushes, regulator and even the alternator itself (for the one of the FI engine) and it still reads 12.41v (or less) on the Battery with a running engine.

It's 'just a hobby' i know and i'm learning each day and that's great! But sometimes it's also doing my head in haha!
And i would have never even thought of 'upgrading' if the original setup ran as it should have run! I agree that upgrading just for the sake of upgrading is not always necessary. My last beetle ran a bone stock 1200 industrial engine, wich was the best running Aircooled Vw i ever owned!!

Thank's for all the feedback so far, it's really helpfull and helping me get excited to get back working on it!

Make sure the voltage regulator body is very well grounded to the car body and check the condition/ tightness of the ground strap between the trans and the body.

Wed Oct 14, 2015 6:35 am

I was never really happy with the 009. Switched to a 019 with Weber 34s and it runs smooth through-out. YRMV

Wed Oct 14, 2015 12:42 pm

savannanotch wrote: Sorry to hear your having such a difficult time with your Notch . I own a stock 69 with the dual Solex set up and automatic tranny . I am grateful to those comments about upgrades and modifications . I have resolved to keep my Notch stock , i think to does quite well on 57 hp and I don't expect blazing performance . I think to many VW owners get sucked into the "keeping up with Jones " and they are never happy with the performance of their car .
I think your Notch is very well done ,it has a unique look but still is relatively close to a stock type 3 . Nice job .

It had plenty of power with the solex setup, but i must say that you notice the increase in power with the Dellorto setup.

Thank you!

W1K1 wrote:
how about a video of how it's running?

Here you go:

http://youtu.be/PkQlvlDqfFI

At the end you actually see it backfire trough the aircleaner.

Wed Oct 21, 2015 1:30 pm

Did you use the same heads when you did the upgrade or did you put new ones on? I only ask cause I had a bug do a similar thing and I had a burnt valve in the head letting it blow by the valve. Maybe do a leak down check to make sure all is as it should be. Just my .02cents, like was said though I experienced this on a bug not a type 3 so take it for what its worth.

Wed Oct 21, 2015 8:14 pm

This is mine with the 36 dells freshly installed
http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u45/CDNBullyboy/SQUARE/1904cc%20engine%20build/MVI_1796.mp4

It didn't want to idle, at the beginning the phhhft out of the idle jet is a blocked idle jet, the others are just running like crap. because as I found out when I was leaning on the carbs on that side it would run okay then not depending on if I was putting weight on the carb, turns out I had a vacuum leak on the 3-4 side.

Thu Oct 22, 2015 2:05 am

don't assume anything....start from scratch, adjust the valves, set points, time it properly, clean those carbs and synch them...oh and measure compression while you are there