TheSamba.com :: View topic - Broken pencil in cylinder while finding TDC

Sun May 15, 2016 10:20 am

1971 Super, stock engine. I was doing a simple distributor swap and did the pencil test to confirm TDC. The pencil broke and the eraser end is now lost in my #1 cylinder. What's the fastest and easiest way to get it out? I can't feel it down the hole so tweezers are not going to work.

Thanks in advance.

Sun May 15, 2016 10:46 am

You could try a shop vac with the smallest attachment you have, it may be able to pull the piece out.

Personally, I would take the head off and ensure all the foreign materiel is removed; it would be work the extra work not to damage my engine.

Sun May 15, 2016 10:55 am

Thanks! Do I need to remove the engine to take the head apart?

Sun May 15, 2016 10:56 am

rmr2122 wrote: 1971 Super, stock engine. I was doing a simple distributor swap and did the pencil test to confirm TDC. The pencil broke and the eraser end is now lost in my #1 cylinder.

1. I can't believe that you did this - you had received poor information, maybe from the Compleat Idiot book. A plastic drinking straw is a tons better choice !!!

2. Others have done this too, and posted their sob stories and fixes here.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=626188&highlight=pencil+broke

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=415893&highlight=pencil+broke

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=225356&highlight=pencil+broke

rmr2122 wrote: 1971 Super, stock engine. I was doing a simple distributor swap and did the pencil test to confirm TDC. The pencil broke and the eraser end is now lost in my #1 cylinder. What's the fastest and easiest way to get it out? I can't feel it down the hole so tweezers are not going to work.

Thanks in advance.

Sun May 15, 2016 11:04 am

Thanks! Do I need to remove the engine to take the head apart?

Sun May 15, 2016 11:08 am

Ugh. That's no fun. Try one of those mechanic's grabber tools like this: http://www.amazon.com/Flexible-Claw-Automotive-Mechanic-Generic/dp/B000RB7AGY

Sun May 15, 2016 11:08 am

rmr2122 wrote: Thanks! Do I need to remove the engine to take the head apart?

The job would be much faster if you remove the engine.

Sun May 15, 2016 12:15 pm

Thanks for the troubleshooting. I live in Brooklyn and my car is parked on the street, so dropping the engine is a bigger deal than if it were in a driveway or garage.

I'm going to try the shopvac and grabber methods. If they don't work, I'm going to fire it up and let the damn thing burn. I'm sure there will be some disagreement with this method, but I seriously double the damage capabilities of a thin piece of metal wrapped around the end of the pencil on this tank of an engine.

Sun May 15, 2016 12:17 pm

Wont a magnet work on the eraser end of the pencil?

Sun May 15, 2016 12:30 pm

rmr2122 wrote: Thanks for the troubleshooting. I live in Brooklyn and my car is parked on the street, so dropping the engine is a bigger deal than if it were in a driveway or garage.

I'm going to try the shopvac and grabber methods. If they don't work, I'm going to fire it up and let the damn thing burn. I'm sure there will be some disagreement with this method, but I seriously double the damage capabilities of a thin piece of metal wrapped around the end of the pencil on this tank of an engine.

Have you ever seen what a wafer thin lock washer will do to a head and piston? Don't think that it will pop right out, you will do damage to your motor no ifs ands or buts. If it doesn't come out with a vacuum pull the head or fk up your engine, your choice.

brad

Sun May 15, 2016 12:32 pm

Use the shop vac, or any vacuum cleaner. Tape up a clear hose to the vacuum suction--a hose that will fit into the spark plug hole. Stick the hose in and turn on the vacuum. Watch the clear hose for the eraser head.

However, if no eraser shows up in the hose, the eraser may simply be stuck to the hose end, so gently pull out the hose with the vacuum still operating.

Tim

Sun May 15, 2016 12:44 pm

Tim Donahoe wrote: Use the shop vac, or any vacuum cleaner. Tape up a clear hose to the vacuum suction--a hose that will fit into the spark plug hole. Stick the hose in and turn on the vacuum. Watch the clear hose for the eraser head.

However, if no eraser shows up in the hose, the eraser may simply be stuck to the hose end, so gently pull out the hose with the vacuum still operating.

Tim

Uhh,if the rings are good you wont draw the eraser out....correcting stupidity should cause pain,it keeps the process from repeating..yard out the engine,take off the head.

Sun May 15, 2016 1:06 pm

Cusser wrote: rmr2122 wrote: 1971 Super, stock engine. I was doing a simple distributor swap and did the pencil test to confirm TDC. The pencil broke and the eraser end is now lost in my #1 cylinder.

1. I can't believe that you did this - you had received poor information, maybe from the Compleat Idiot book. A plastic drinking straw is a tons better choice !!!
[/quote]
Take the pulley bolt off and turn the engine so the key way is at 9:00. Now it is at TDC on either #1 or #3. Reinstall the nut, remove the valve covers and rock the engine back and forth observing the rockers on #1 and #3. If the #3 rockers are moving, it's at TDC on #1. If the #1 rockers are moving, it's at TDC on #3.

No need to stick anything inside the cylinder.

Sun May 15, 2016 2:12 pm

Dougy Dee wrote: Wont a magnet work on the eraser end of the pencil?

Yes, a rubber magnet.

Sun May 15, 2016 2:22 pm

Volks Wagen wrote: Dougy Dee wrote: Wont a magnet work on the eraser end of the pencil?

Yes, a rubber magnet.
Maybe a wood magnet would be better.

The metal around the eraser is most likely aluminum.

Sun May 15, 2016 2:46 pm

ALUMINUM! Then that wont work. I should have checked more pencils than the old one I found in the back shop... It was steel/magnetic.

Sun May 15, 2016 3:00 pm

Could he/she remove the bolts in the rear of the frame fork and lower the engine/trans enough to get the head off? Might not have to completely remove the engine that way.

Just a thought,

Dan

Sun May 15, 2016 3:11 pm

rmr2122 wrote: Thanks for the troubleshooting. I live in Brooklyn and my car is parked on the street, so dropping the engine is a bigger deal than if it were in a driveway or garage.

I'm going to try the shopvac and grabber methods. If they don't work, I'm going to fire it up and let the damn thing burn. I'm sure there will be some disagreement with this method, but I seriously double the damage capabilities of a thin piece of metal wrapped around the end of the pencil on this tank of an engine.

Take it from me, I've worked on enough old junk on Queens N.Y. streets. If you can't possibly pull the engine and you have 115 volt out there on the curb, do the shop vac with the tiny hose, etc. but don't fire it up, just turn it over by hand and hopefully crunch it up enough separating the aluminum band from most of the wood. Then do the shop vac again until you at least get the metal piece. Any wood left shouldn't be too bad if it's in small enough pieces. It's not the right way but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do.

Sun May 15, 2016 3:26 pm

I wonder would pouring oil in the plug hole fast cause it to float up and out?

Sun May 15, 2016 3:48 pm

Dougy Dee wrote: ALUMINUM! Then that wont work. I should have checked more pencils than the old one I found in the back shop... It was steel/magnetic.
So is the cast iron cylinder.

I'd get a borescope and one of those 3 finger grabbing things on a flexible shaft.