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Sun Mar 14, 2004 5:45 am

Hi,

I'm a bit confused here. I'm looking to buy BRM wheels. Seems to be two manufacturers; Flat4 and MWS(midland wheels).

What I have found is that the sizes are as follows:

Flat4:
5" ET-12 or 6,5" ET-??

MWS:
4,5" ET-?? or 5,5" ET-12

the 5,5" MWS and 5" Flat4 is said to have same ET/offset so wheel clearence should not differ (if same tire size is used) .

Question is about QUALITY of wheels - price seems to be almost the same (MWS a little lower priced for me here in Europe due to cheaper shipping - about 70$ diffecence for a set of four so I will still choose best quality).

Some threads say that Flat4 is superior, while others say early MWS was bad but that they now are better than Flat4.

The MWS has more authentic caps, but they're said to be interchangable and are only about 4$ a piece so it won't matter... Think I will need the deeper cap anyway as I have the 1960-drums which are said to not fit the 'original' depth caps.

I have seen pictures of the MWS 4,5" and it does not look nice as it is to 'shallow' so I don't want that one. I'd like to use it on a 1960 ghia without any modifications. So I'll guess that I will look for the 5" or 5,5" whichever is the best quality.

Anyone that can provide help in my decition...

Thanks /Johan

Mon Mar 15, 2004 8:39 pm

i don't know who "midland wheels" are, but to my knowledge there are two manufacturers of BRM replica wheels: Speedwell (UK) and Flat 4 (Japan). as far as the quality of these two, i have found that the speedwell wheels have a much nicer finish and better overall quality. i bought my Speedwell BRM's early last year and have been very happy with them. when i was getting ready to buy them i looked at both wheels several times and ulitimately decided on the speedwells. the finishes on the two are pretty different. i would recommend trying to look at both in person before deciding. both are usually easily identified by their different center caps if you happen to see them on a car at a show or something. although i would try and ask the owner to be sure, as i believe the centercaps are interchangable(?). i bought mine from www.cip1.com

Tue Mar 16, 2004 7:59 am

I got Flat-4 BRMs which I bought 2 years ago. Am also totally happy with them though I would have bought the 6.5"s if the were available then. It is a personal choice. However, the center caps are NOT interchangeable inbetween manufacturers. Slight difference makes it impossible without some modification. Also if you want them for a bus you will need either deeper caps or spacers for the caps AND lug bolts for the bus. Don't know if the manufacturers are providing then now but they didn't when I bought mine and they came with lug bolts for the bug only. So, I had to buy a set of lug bolts and made my own spacers. I could have made "caps" but opted on the spacers so I could use the caps that came with the rims.

Do try to look at the difference yourself before making a decision.

Good luck! 8)

Tue Mar 16, 2004 9:59 am

Seems like a matter of tase then, which wheel to choose... Will try to spot some wheels then. The Flat4 is not sold here in sweden as I know of...

About the names... From what I understand the Midland Wheels repros are called 'speedwells' by some. If they bought the original name I don't know. It's manufactured by MWS ( www.midlandwheelsshop.com ) and are aluminum repros like the flat4 wheel. The Flat4 is said to have the original mag-dimensions - the MWS is 1/2 inch wider.

Look at these links for more info i found searching the net about BRM's:
http://www.vwtrendsweb.com/features/0107vwt_question/
http://hem.passagen.se/tobiasax/brm.htm
http://www.terovirta.com (go to wheel guide)
http://www.terovirta.com/volks/1997_UKTrip.html

Also found another story about the wheels in a Swedish forum. This story was that the wheels were made by BRM for formula cars which had the same bolt pattern as VW and it was not intended for VW's at all in the first place. Why would a non-performance car get formula class wheels? BRM was the original manufacturer of the wheels, which were made in the UK by Owens Foundry... Speedwell was the UK reseller of BRM and other performance products. Both EMPI and Speedwell sold the original BRM wheels in the 60:th. Speedwell sold EMPI products in the U.K. and vice versa.

So 'speedwells', 'EMPI' or 'BRM's' should be the 'original' magnesium wheel that was discontinued in the late 1960:th. This original wheel has not got safety beeds, will probably cost more that the rest of the car and it is said that the magnesium will (apart from needing to be polished every week) start to crack so it is not reccomended to use them as dayly driver wheels. For Flat4 or MWS or whatever to call the copies, let's call them UK or japanese...

Whichever story is true, I'd like a repro set of BRM's. Either the jap or the UK version - both are copies, just wondering which to choose.

Wed Mar 17, 2004 9:49 am

About the 4,5" MWS wheel... On the picture from CIP1 you can see that the spokes are almost at the edge of the rim. I was thinking of these wheels, but got an answer in another thread from someone that had seen them that they looked strange due to the spokes beeing so far out. I called MWS to ask about a better picture, but I never got one. He said on the phone though, that the rim was only modified on the outer side (as picture is indicating). I have not been able to find information about the offset / ET of the rim. It should be about ET-25 (as 1/2 inch is about 13mm and that is added to the original ET-12) so it will be closer to the original 4" wheel which I think have an offset of about ET-32.

Wed Mar 17, 2004 3:07 pm

the offset is way diff between the 2 manufacturers. 15mm to 24 or 25mm I believe... so one wheel will stick farther out from the drum then the other one will...

Wed Mar 17, 2004 3:20 pm

I have had another person saying that the Flat4 wheel is closer to the original offset (MWS 12mm, Original ~32mm) so if flat4 is 25mm that would suit me better! Thing is that on Flat4 jap homepage I found the measurement 12mm but it was surrounded by japanese characters, so I'm not sure what it means. If anyone who has the flat4 wheel and could make a rough measurement how far from the center of the wheel the alignment of the brakedrum will be I'd be helped a lot.

Thu Mar 18, 2004 3:17 pm

hey Johan,

The offsets were published in vw trends either last month or the month before. Like i said, i believe the flat4 were 15mm offset vs the 24/25 of the UK version.

Thu Mar 18, 2004 3:24 pm

I did order a VW trends subscription, but haven't yet received any numbers of that magazine. I'll try to find it in a store, but if it is 2 numbers back they probably don't have it... If anyone has the article, please check the data, or even better if you have the possibility to scan it and mail it to me... Thanks /Johan

Thu Mar 18, 2004 7:08 pm

ok ok johan..you made me look for an old issue; here goes from vwt:

Midland Wheel Supply (BRM copy)
pattern 5x205
size 15x5.5
offset 24mm

Flat 4 (BRM copy)
pattern 5x205
size 15x5, 15x6.5
offset 12mm

i hope that satisfies your curiosity :)