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Mon Aug 08, 2016 5:32 am

I'm working a '69 beetle currently and can't stand the amount of play in the front end. I have gone through ALL the other possibilities for free play and I am now 100% certain it is the box. All other parts are new and or tightened correctly so........

I was going to just pick up a new TRW but after reading the insanity that is abound with them I want to steer clear (no pun intended).

Anyone know who has a good rebuild program/reputation or where I can get the components to rebuild it myself?

Just acquired the car (very solid) however the box was pretty abused over the years it would seem. The adjuster screw is also bottomed out pretty well so I suspect years of failed adjustment.

Anyway,
Thanks for any help.

Mon Aug 08, 2016 6:04 am

There is a really great thread happening right now in the Type 3 forum about TRW vs. VW boxes to include lots of teardown and analysis stuff.

Worth reading

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=660446

Mon Aug 08, 2016 7:31 am

Nice.......... That's a great thread for sure. I'll be following that closely for sure.

Still looking for leads on parts and/or rebuild places.

Options are good.

Mon Aug 08, 2016 8:08 am

What's the problem with a TRW steering box?

http://ersgearbox.com/

http://www.steeringgears.net/custom-steering-gear-...oCEwDw_wcB

http://www.steerandgear.com/

http://www.rebuildingfactory.com/

http://benchworksteering.com/

Mon Aug 08, 2016 8:21 am

DeathTrap wrote: What's the problem with a TRW steering box?

read the link provided and find out.

Mon Aug 08, 2016 8:26 am

ROCKOROD71 wrote: DeathTrap wrote: What's the problem with a TRW steering box?

read the link provided and find out.

They appear to come with a warranty.

Fitup problems can be a bodyshop misalignment issue long ago created.

was that a beetle box?

Mon Aug 08, 2016 8:56 am

DeathTrap wrote: ROCKOROD71 wrote: DeathTrap wrote: What's the problem with a TRW steering box?

read the link provided and find out.

They appear to come with a warranty.

Fitup problems can be a bodyshop misalignment issue long ago created.

was that a beetle box?

Read that thread linked above again, champ. Try to slow down and read each word, then look at the pictures. You can get this....

Mon Aug 08, 2016 9:39 am

ROCKOROD71 wrote: DeathTrap wrote: ROCKOROD71 wrote: DeathTrap wrote: What's the problem with a TRW steering box?

read the link provided and find out.

They appear to come with a warranty.

Fitup problems can be a bodyshop misalignment issue long ago created.

was that a beetle box?

Read that thread linked above again, champ. Try to slow down and read each word, then look at the pictures. You can get this....

No thanks

just sounds like a bunch of whine

Maybe you could emulate it and review empi parts

isn't there a whole forum for this?
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewforum.php?f=14

I'm in Beetle - Late Model/Super - 1968-up

I provided a whole list of rebuilders

I could live without the personal attacks

Mon Aug 08, 2016 9:53 am

I know...reading IS really hard. Hurts the brains sometimes. I'll give you the Readers Digest version (you old timers remember Readers Digest right?): Bad machining, mis-aligned drillings, missing/inappropriate washers and/or shims, wrong lubricant that doesn't reach all the places lubricant must get to lubricate, main components that are the incorrect size/orientation to OG, bad quality bearings made from inferior materials.
You're probably right tho...MUSTA BEEN THE BODY SHOP THAT DONE IT 20 YEARS AGO a'yup....

Not really a whine thread as opposed to a detailed breakdown and comparison, but you would have seen that if you clicked on the link and read the VERY FIRST POST. How do you even muster the effort to turn your computer on?

Mon Aug 08, 2016 9:59 am

DeathTrap wrote: ROCKOROD71 wrote: DeathTrap wrote: What's the problem with a TRW steering box?

read the link provided and find out.

They appear to come with a warranty.

Fitup problems can be a bodyshop misalignment issue long ago created.

was that a beetle box?

I happen to know the man that did the write up on the TRW boxes vs original Vw. I saw with my own eyes the differences. In a nutshell the TRW has sloppy tolerances, uses poor quality bearings and is generally a piece of shit. If this is something you want for your ride by all means step right up. It's the same reason people are rebuilding stock German carbs, distributors,fuel pumps etc. the aftermarket parts are crap.

Mon Aug 08, 2016 10:23 am

DeathTrap wrote: What's the problem with a TRW steering box?

http://ersgearbox.com/

http://www.steeringgears.net/custom-steering-gear-...oCEwDw_wcB

http://www.steerandgear.com/

http://www.rebuildingfactory.com/

http://benchworksteering.com/

Thanks for the links.

To answer your question, I've just read about a lot of people having issues straight off the shelf. Initially the TRW's were good apparently but the quality has dropped significantly it would seem. Some folks had sloppier front ends with a new TRW than they did with the old worn out VW box they were replacing.

Just looking to avoid that.

Cheers,
Steve

Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:36 am

New2me69 wrote: DeathTrap wrote: What's the problem with a TRW steering box?

http://ersgearbox.com/

http://www.steeringgears.net/custom-steering-gear-...oCEwDw_wcB

http://www.steerandgear.com/

http://www.rebuildingfactory.com/

http://benchworksteering.com/

Thanks for the links.

To answer your question, I've just read about a lot of people having issues straight off the shelf. Initially the TRW's were good apparently but the quality has dropped significantly it would seem. Some folks had sloppier front ends with a new TRW than they did with the old worn out VW box they were replacing.

Just looking to avoid that.

Cheers,
Steve

Any of those links above sounds great but guess what? The source for new bearings has dried up. The seals are standard sizes and readily available but without those bearings you are dead in the water. Then there's the little problem of no rebuild kit, you can make a gasket but what about the bushings?TRW uses a different type bearing with plastic cage (sounds like quality). TRW made the adjusting screw longer too so you keep cranking down on it expecting it to work. The original VW box is so simple in design and easy to fix if we just had the parts. About half the boxes need only cleaning and adjusting. The original lubricant has turned into something else after 40 to 50+ years. Take a look see.

Mon Aug 08, 2016 4:40 pm

30,000 miles on my 65 with a TRW and its still just fine and dandy....Just sayin.......

Tue Aug 09, 2016 4:41 am

andk5591 wrote: 30,000 miles on my 65 with a TRW and its still just fine and dandy....Just sayin.......

Once upon a time a blind squirrel found a nut. Another person here bought a good engine from GEX. The revolution will not be televised. :D

Tue Aug 09, 2016 5:16 am

andk5591 wrote: 30,000 miles on my 65 with a TRW and its still just fine and dandy....Just sayin.......

A wise man once said "even the losers get lucky sometimes"

Tue Aug 09, 2016 7:28 am

andk5591 wrote: 30,000 miles on my 65 with a TRW and its still just fine and dandy....Just sayin.......

Its the old bait and switch. TRW was the Brazillian OEM for VW. Bugs were sold there until the late 90s IIRC, and in Mexico until 2004. Not sure what the laws in those respective countries were, but in the US you need to provide parts for 10 years after manufacturing ceases. I assume they have something similar, so the VW dealer would install Brosol, BoCar, TRW, Jopex, brand stuff at the dealership. Hence there was strict quality control on these parts for some time. Once the dealer/VW was no longer required to provide parts the QC of these 3rd world companies dropped off. You can see it with the BoCar/Solex carbs, which were fine, then you start seeing exact copies of them with the VW and Solex logos machined off. I have one of these and when you open the carb up "Solex" is right there on the throat inside the carb. Eventually as those parts ran out you stopped seeing that Solex throat in the BoCar carbs. Eventually they were (still are?) producing carbs on par with Chinese knockoffs. TRW and Varga merged at some point, they make brake and suspension/ steering parts. their tie rods are still good to my knowledge, but it is getting to the point where we need to ask vendors for date codes on the PARTICULAR box they are sending us if you want some semblance of reliability in the parts. I have heard new Cofap oil filled shocks aren't that great. I got an old set from Bug City that have been great for the last 2 years. Dunno what to tell people anymore. Fuel pumps? People say the cheap Brosol ones are shit but I ran one fine for 17 years, replaced it with another that has been on my car for 3 years, and the old one wasn't even the problem.
In this case it seems TRW made good steering boxes for a while, and now they are crap, or at least the quality control is crap.

Tue Aug 09, 2016 7:58 am

ROCKOROD71 wrote: andk5591 wrote: 30,000 miles on my 65 with a TRW and its still just fine and dandy....Just sayin.......

Its the old bait and switch. TRW was the Brazillian OEM for VW. Bugs were sold there until the late 90s IIRC, and in Mexico until 2004. Not sure what the laws in those respective countries were, but in the US you need to provide parts for 10 years after manufacturing ceases. I assume they have something similar, so the VW dealer would install Brosol, BoCar, TRW, Jopex, brand stuff at the dealership. Hence there was strict quality control on these parts for some time. Once the dealer/VW was no longer required to provide parts the QC of these 3rd world companies dropped off. You can see it with the BoCar/Solex carbs, which were fine, then you start seeing exact copies of them with the VW and Solex logos machined off. I have one of these and when you open the carb up "Solex" is right there on the throat inside the carb. Eventually as those parts ran out you stopped seeing that Solex throat in the BoCar carbs. Eventually they were (still are?) producing carbs on par with Chinese knockoffs. TRW and Varga merged at some point, they make brake and suspension/ steering parts. their tie rods are still good to my knowledge, but it is getting to the point where we need to ask vendors for date codes on the PARTICULAR box they are sending us if you want some semblance of reliability in the parts. I have heard new Cofap oil filled shocks aren't that great. I got an old set from Bug City that have been great for the last 2 years. Dunno what to tell people anymore. Fuel pumps? People say the cheap Brosol ones are shit but I ran one fine for 17 years, replaced it with another that has been on my car for 3 years, and the old one wasn't even the problem.
In this case it seems TRW made good steering boxes for a while, and now they are crap, or at least the quality control is crap.

If you read the write over on the type3 forum you can see that the box was machined wrong on two different angles and some of the identification has been ground off. Could this be reject parts going out the back door? He only posted it to inform folks of what's being sold. It's just info you can use. I'll gather up a few originals, rebuild and keep them just like I've kept some carbs,fuel pumps and distributors.

Tue Aug 09, 2016 8:49 am

Whine

the boxes presented currently have a casting number present.

TRW has made auto parts for eons

Being professionally responsible to accurate and professional repairs without a high return rate. I'd rate TRW as a reputable supplier.

It's a whine thread

a dated whine thread at that

go get another current unit de-engineer it, put in service and report back.

Tue Aug 09, 2016 9:06 am

ROCKOROD71 wrote: andk5591 wrote: 30,000 miles on my 65 with a TRW and its still just fine and dandy....Just sayin.......

Its the old bait and switch. TRW was the Brazillian OEM for VW. Bugs were sold there until the late 90s IIRC, and in Mexico until 2004. Not sure what the laws in those respective countries were, but in the US you need to provide parts for 10 years after manufacturing ceases.

The part in bold is a myth that has grown legs on the Internet. No such law exists.

Tue Aug 09, 2016 9:51 am

So to conclude what I have read: TRW steering box quality is a crap shoot (consider yourself lucky if you actually get a good one) but the other alternative is to stick with VW old steering box but there is no realistic source to rebuild them or someone out there who rebuilds them. :-s