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Tue Aug 23, 2016 8:59 am

1975 bay window
I have pulled the upright engine that the last owner put in
poorly i might add
and i am installing a new 2.0L

i have a question about the input shaft

anyone know what it should measure?
is there anyway he could have put that upright in and not replaced the shaft?
I see you can cut them down 11mm to get it in but this one does not look cut

if i need one any leads on where to find one?
he had it hanging off the transmission with 3 bolts no support bar no tin

thanks

Tue Aug 23, 2016 9:41 am

weddle has them

Tue Aug 23, 2016 10:18 am

To link to this post copy and paste.
Code: [url=http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8187129#8187129]Transmission input shaft length[/url]

Type I 002 input shaft protrusion from face of bell housing

aeromech wrote: mranker wrote: OK engine out and the input shaft clears the mating surface of the transaxle by 9/16".

I called Eric over at Transworks this morning. He measured an input shaft and came up with the same length you have, 9/16. Looks like you are ok with the one you have.

Wildthings wrote:
A quick check in the bone yard shows that the Type 4 shaft sticks out about 1" from the bellhousing while the Type 1 shaft sticks out about 9/16, so there is about a 7/16" difference in length.

kreemoweet wrote: That input shaft looks a little long. The later (72-on in the U.S), longer shaft sometimes works OK on earlier engines ... and sometimes not. Forcing
the engine and trans to mate with the mounting bolts/nuts is just begging for unnecessary damage.

Tue Aug 23, 2016 10:54 am

Even if yours is cut I'm not sure it would matter. Maybe someone else knows

Tue Aug 23, 2016 11:24 am

aeromech wrote: Even if yours is cut I'm not sure it would matter. Maybe someone else knows

I BELIEVE that it has to do with the depth of the pilot bearing. On a T4 engine the pilot bearing is in the crankshaft - that puts it deeper than the flywheel. On a T1 motor the pilot shaft sits farther out in the flywheel gland nut.

I would thing the easiest way to tell is hold a line between the edges of the bell housing and see how far out the nose of the input shaft sits. Then measure the depth of the pilot bearing from the surface of the engine case with the flywheel off.

There is also a ring that goes in the flywheel and a felt washer between it and the pilot bearing to keep in grease and dirt out. Those are built into the gland nut on a T1 engine.

Tue Aug 23, 2016 11:41 am

If I am reading this right the input shaft you have now is to accommodate the installation of a type 1 engine in your '73 bus. And now you are going get rid of that engine and return to a type 4 engine like it is supposed to have.

If this is the case you need to replace the input shaft back to the longer style input shaft that came on the '73 transaxle originally. If the input shaft you have now was cut down or replaced with the shorter version for the type 1 powered buses (68 to 71) it matters not. It is still too short to be supported correctly if at all by the pilot bearing in the end of the type 4 engines crankshaft, and will have bad effects on the operation of the clutch.

No shortcuts or tricks in this case. Just strait out replace it with the right part. :)

Tue Aug 23, 2016 11:48 am

I have seen pilot bearings pressed directly into the flywheel when a type 4 is used in a Beetle, it's nothing that comes off the shelf though, requires a skilled machinist to fabricate and install.

Easier to measure yours and replace it if it's short.

Tue Aug 23, 2016 12:02 pm

On a Bus Type 4 engine and tranny the pilot bearing runs out near the end of the pilot shaft. If the shaft is for a Type 1 engine it will be too short to run with with the Bus Type 4 engine. You will either need to get a longer pilot shaft or have the flywheel machined to accept the pilot bearing as per some other uses of these engines. Not sure that that is a good idea if you have a cast flywheel though as you would not be leaving a lot of meat around the bolt holes.

Tue Aug 23, 2016 12:16 pm

ok i will measure it tomorrow thanks for all the great info

Here is a couple before after shots of my bus

enjoy

Tue Aug 23, 2016 12:18 pm

on a side note any info on installing the new one if we have to replace it?

also any other other seals parts etc for swapping this out?
thanks a lot guys its been years since i sold my last 3 vw bus's
and i am a bit rusty

I am gonna guess i have to open the trans up...

Tue Aug 23, 2016 12:59 pm

it is a simple task after you get the correct input shaft. You will also want to look at the bell housing to be sure it is the correct one for the flywheel you are installing with the 2L. You may have the wrong Bell housing for a 2L. Weddle has those too. Photos of the flywheel side of the engine and the transmission would be helpful.

Tue Aug 23, 2016 1:33 pm

ok great
I will get pictures tomorrow the bus is sitting a hour away from me
I have a diesel tech helping me finish this off
but he is not a VW guy he will get it running if i can figure out the rest

thanks for that hook up on the part i found the shaft i will go find the housing now
i assume i can just swap out the housing as well
the trans runs great don't want to replace it just yet

Tue Aug 23, 2016 3:22 pm

on a side note any info on installing the new one if we have to replace it?
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7987475#7987475

Tue Aug 23, 2016 4:48 pm

oh man thanks!! this looks like a breeze

think i am ready to tackle this
thanks everyone for the help
and wish me luck lol

Tue Aug 23, 2016 6:08 pm

dennismafo wrote: on a side note any info on installing the new one if we have to replace it?

also any other other seals parts etc for swapping this out?
thanks a lot guys its been years since i sold my last 3 vw bus's
and i am a bit rusty

I am gonna guess i have to open the trans up...

I replace the tranny input shaft seal pretty much whenever I have access to it. You should also check that the oil slinger is still fitting tight.

Wed Aug 24, 2016 10:23 am

This is what i am working with
any thoughts does it look like this will work the shaft is out past the bell housing..

Wed Aug 24, 2016 10:30 am

my instinct is that is an early 002 transmission and if so it won't play well with a 2L.

The flywheel on your 2L needs cleaning or surfacing depending on how deep the rust is.

Below is an 091 transmission which was used on the 2L motors. If you count the ribs there are 6. You will also notice two ears at the top of the bell housing closest to you in the photo. See if how many ribs your transmission has and check to see if it has ears on it.

Wed Aug 24, 2016 10:46 am

Tcash wrote: url=http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8187129#8187129]Transmission input shaft length[/url]

Type I 002 input shaft protrusion from face of bell housing

aeromech wrote: mranker wrote: OK engine out and the input shaft clears the mating surface of the transaxle by 9/16".

I called Eric over at Transworks this morning. He measured an input shaft and came up with the same length you have, 9/16. Looks like you are ok with the one you have.

A quick check in the bone yard shows that the Type 4 shaft sticks out about 1" from the bellhousing while the Type 1 shaft sticks out about 9/16, so there is about a 7/16" difference in length.

Wed Aug 24, 2016 11:44 am

Here is the transmission
I have no clue if this is right for the 2L i have to go in it

Wed Aug 24, 2016 12:44 pm

to me that looks like a 5 rib. Does the bell housing have the two ears on it at the top as mentioned?