TheSamba.com :: View topic - A Poll: Do You Use Anti-Seize When You Install NGK Spark Plugs?

Sun Sep 04, 2016 7:20 am

NGK states in "5 Things You Should Know About Spark Plugs" that:

"NGK spark plugs feature what is known as trivalent plating. This silver-or-chrome colored finish on the threads is designed to provide corrosion resistance against moisture and chemicals. The coating also acts as a release agent during spark plug removal. NGK spark plugs are installed at the factory dry, without the use of anti-seize. NGK tech support has received a number of tech calls from installers who have over-tightened spark plugs because of the use of anti-seize. Anti-seize compound can act as a lubricant altering torque values up to 20 percent, increasing the risk of spark plug thread breakage."
https://www.ngksparkplugs.com/about-ngk/spark-plug-101/5-things-you-should-know-about-spark-plugs

I'll be installing plugs (NGK) for the first time in my '67 Beetle 1500, so I'm wondering what most of you do with NGK spark plugs. Thanks.

I should have put an option for "Dry". If you put them in dry, please add that as a post. Thanks.

Sun Sep 04, 2016 7:36 am

Regardless of the plug make, I've never used anti-seize or anything else on spark plugs. I make it a point to remove the plugs at every tune up (which I do twice a year), clean them and check the gap, and put them back in, turning them gently by hand until they are properly seated, and then tightening them just a scooch with the wrench. Knock on wood, I've never had one seize.

Sun Sep 04, 2016 8:25 am

i have always added a drop of motor oil to the thread, dad taught me that 40 years ago, still do it. never used a torque qrench on them ever, just firm tightness.

Sun Sep 04, 2016 8:45 am

I use anti-seize. While I understand and agree about their plating, I've removed too many plugs (in all kinds of engines, not only VW's) that were almost frozen tight and to me it's not worth the risk of stripping out the threads in the head. Also while yes I understand the torque value is increased with anti-seize, I would dare say that almost all of the cases of "over-tightening" the plugs are due to improper use, incorrect torque value, and improper calibration of the torque wrenches. Further more, how thick is the plating? Can it wear off if you reuse a plug more than once? (See below) So if it bothers you, go ahead and use anti-seize. It doesn't take much just a light touch of it. I use the copper colored kind that comes in a can from O'reillys. The cap has a brush on the underside of it that greatly eases application. As for over torquing it, try subtracting 20% of the torque value and run it for a bit and go back and check and see if it's loosened. If not you should be good to go.

And one more thing... Something to consider...playing devils advocate here...

Consider the fact that almost all spark plugs gaskets are the "crush-type" gaskets and that when you buy and install a brand new plug, you can feel the gasket being crushed. Now what happens later when you remove said plug for cleaning and gap checking and then reinstall it? You reuse the now technically speaking "bad" (because it's a crush gasket and after being crushed once is it doesn't really crush any further unless you up the torque value) gasket. An argument could be made then for never reusing plugs (unless you could replace the gasket each time) and if that were the case then yes the plating on the NGK could never wear out and anti-seize would be totally useless. Just food for thought.

Heres another similar topic about spark plugs that you might find interesting. While yes they are talking about a (mostly) water cooled engine, I don't see why it wouldn't apply to our engines as well...

http://www.rotax-owner.com/en/rotax-forum/4-general-discussion/4306-spark-plug-paste

Sun Sep 04, 2016 10:48 am

I've always used a small dab of anti-seize lubricant on NGK (or any other brand) of spark plugs. I've been doing this for many years on both water-cooled & air-cooled motors and have never had a plug seize in the head. Some will say that anti-seize interferes with heat transfer from the plug into the head but I've never personally seen any evidence of this.

I use it mainly to aid with screwing the plugs in because I think that after 3K miles of use, especially in an air-cooled motor, any thread lubricant will be pretty much burned off and its ability to help prevent seizing will be minimal at best.

I always hand-tighten spark plugs using a 7" ratchet handle. I tighten until I feel the crush washer flatten out and can't turn the ratchet any further by hand.

I'll also never re-install a used spark plug when doing a tune-up.

Sun Sep 04, 2016 11:12 am

I always use a touch of anti-seize but I also use a little dialectic grease on the porcelain so the boot is easy to come off and prevent spark shorting.

Sun Sep 04, 2016 11:29 am

bluebus86 wrote: i have always added a drop of motor oil to the thread, dad taught me that 40 years ago, still do it. never used a torque qrench on them ever, just firm tightness.

this is what I do.

Mon Sep 05, 2016 6:50 am

Mon Sep 05, 2016 8:56 am

rcooled wrote:

I'll also never re-install a used spark plug when doing a tune-up.

yes, but if you are jetting your dual webers on a fresh motor, you are constantly taking the plugs out to read them, hot, straight of a run switching the motor off and coasting to a cool shady place, etc

I use permetx anti seize - and just a little goes a long way. I've used oil off the dipstick in a pinch. Never had a problem in 20+ years (knock on wood)

Mon Sep 05, 2016 9:12 am

Just in case there was a misunderstanding, I always clean and reuse my spark plugs multiple times, and have never had a problem with that (unless I drop one on a hard surface or something, then I have to replace it with a new one) I was just being a devils advocate and saying that if you really wanted to get super technical, crush gaskets arent supposed to be reused. Also I don't know if NGK's official policy is that you can clean and reuse their plugs multiple times, or if you are supposed to replace them every time they are removed. I wonder if their special plating is thick enough to withstand multiple uses without oil or antiseize on the threads?

Mon Sep 05, 2016 9:57 am

I always use a little bit of anti seize on the plugs. I have never been out of the habit of using Bosch plugs and the reason was in the past when I worked in the VW dealership, the only plugs we had problems with were NGK, Champion, and Autolite. I don't know how these plugs are today but in the past we discovered unless the plugs were indexed the threaded portion extended beyond the head combustion chamber just enough for the first 3/4 to a full turn of thread was exposed in the combustion chamber. Carbon on the thread pulled the threads out of head on plug removal. This is why we only carried Bosch plugs in the dealership. Remember when cleaning and reusing plugs that you replace the " crush gasket " each and every time for proper torque.

Mon Sep 05, 2016 1:06 pm

I have had a plug seize on the way out of a VW, so I know it can happen. I got in the habit of using anti seize on aircraft engines. Always!

Mon Sep 05, 2016 5:51 pm

I use anti-seize on plugs. Now I'm wondering whether I use too much of it having read that it can cause a drop in thermal conductivity. How much is too much? Also, who replaces the crush washers each time (and where do you get them?!).

Mon Sep 05, 2016 6:57 pm

Neversieze prevents thread galling when screwing a steel plug into an aluminum head..it prevents galling on a steel plug/steel insert application as well..but the value is when the heads are virgin..

Mon Sep 05, 2016 8:07 pm

Never-Seize for me as well...

Tue Sep 06, 2016 5:31 pm

I use a liquid aircraft spark plug anti seize, but any will work. Key is to use very little. If yours is a paste, use very little.

Tue Sep 06, 2016 5:38 pm

In my religion it is a sin to screw a dry hole, so, I use oil.
I don't know what would happen if I put them in dry. I don't think I would be able to do it, I'd be afraid of going to hell.

You can also go to hell from bending cold iron.

Tue Sep 06, 2016 7:15 pm

NGK doesn't say anything on their website about introducing foreign liquids or pastes onto their Spark Plugs when installing them.
https://www.ngksparkplugs.com/about-ngk/tech-talk/spark-plug-installation

Tue Sep 06, 2016 10:17 pm

I am sure some engineer will reply shortly, however, I am not convinced with anti seize. I would rather have good thermal conductivity. It is an air cooled car. I will admit the new cars with 100k "before needing new plugs" anti seize seems like a hell of an idea. That I have heard 100k is way too long to leave any plugs before replacing, and 100k later you are way more likely to find a seized plug.
Besides, unless I am missing something, copper plugs are cheap. I would not go with platinum/iridium/etc. Not 100% the same, but on my 87 Jetta, the platinum plugs fowled due to the coil not being like a new toyota/vw/mercedes with a good coil, or coil packs, and eventually it wouldn't start. Carbon fowling. Some new copper plugs did the trick and I was good for 25+k miles after that. I think the electrode is way bigger on the copper plugs so it doesn't fowl as easily.
I used to take them out and brush them from time to time, on both cars. Easy stuff.
My last car/golf, had poster child worn plugs and it ran fine, but I replaced them for sure. I saved one and hung it in the garage. Priceless.
As far as the gasket, I would agree if we were taking about 1/4 mile cars. but I have reused the copper gasket on my diesel drain plug half-dozen times w/out any leaks. If you get the plug snug, its fine. Sure a torque wrench is cool, but again, splitting hairs here I think.
Just my 2 cents.

Wed Sep 07, 2016 6:12 am

Helfen wrote: I always use a little bit of anti seize on the plugs............. Remember when cleaning and reusing plugs that you replace the " crush gasket " each and every time for proper torque.

Just yesterday I pulled a couple of plugs to check mixture and while I was in my garage found a bunch of old ( from the 1960's) copper spark plug gaskets..... I figured why not do it the right way and change the gaskets on the two plugs before reinstalling.......but I couldn't get the used metal gaskets off the Bosch plugs......before I did any damage to the plugs I gave up and reinstalled the plugs with the old gaskets & ( always ) anti seize.

Is this normal with steel gaskets on Bosch plugs ? I used to routinely replace gaskets on older American cars back in the 60's & 70's whenever I checked plugs.