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Mon Oct 17, 2016 11:44 am

Does anyone know of a way to build a mid engine chassis/pan?
I'm building a "coachbuilt" car and would like to go with something mid engine.
Does anyone have any pictures of a stock beetle pan or other chassis that has been set up for this?
Would the handling be that much better than compared to a rear engine with a souped up 40hp?
James

Mon Oct 17, 2016 12:44 pm

Berrien had an interesting mid-engine design at the Carlisle Event. It was covered during most of the show, as it rained most of the time. At the end of the show, a few of us got a sneak peek of it. It was using a tubular chassis, custom, with an Ecotec motor and transmission. Not sure if it was an automatic or stick. The motor was about where the rear seat was and the transmission was behind it. There was nothing in the very rear end. Somewhere, I have some pictures of it. I am running an Ecotec with and 091 bus trans and it is long. The Ecotec sits sideways, in the Berrian design and saves a lot of room. I recently purchased another Ecotec 2.4 Liter, with automatic trans. I couldn't pass it up with 50,200 miles.

Mon Oct 17, 2016 3:09 pm

This may get you started.... Or not...

http://images.lmgtfy.com/?q=mid+engine+volkswagen+chassis

Might also try link and drop out the "volkswagen" word...

Dale

Mon Oct 17, 2016 4:02 pm

Here you go.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=267428&highlight=mid+engine

Mike T

Mon Oct 17, 2016 8:29 pm

Probably cheaper to reuse what is out there. How about looking at the VW-Porsche 914 (1970-1976). It's a unibody vehicle but the body could be cut away and a tubular body built for it leaving the F&R suspension and a 5 spd trans-axle capable of supporting the OEM engine, a Subaru engine or even a V8. Terminally rusted 914 can be found inexpensively. Another alternative would be a Pontiac Fiero - stock 4 or V6 engines but can also support a 32 valve V8.

Tue Oct 18, 2016 9:07 am

Like this?

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=427996&highlight=mid+engine

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=440534

bnc

Tue Oct 18, 2016 11:31 am

I have my dunebuggy and my friend has a very nice 914. I've driven both, in addition to several other high performance ACVWs I've owned in the last 35+ years.

My impressions: In addition to the reversal of the engine transmission mounting, there are several obvious differences between the 914 and its cousin beetle, in ground clearance, suspension and braking. All of which, excepting the transaxle/engine orientation, can be changed on a VW pan based buggy to bring it rather close to the configuration of the 914. Just a matter of time, dough, and desire.

I think that at the speeds at which a buggy is comfortable to drive, the difference in handling between one configuration and another in a buggy would be hard for most to notice.

All that being said, junk 914s can be had for a song, so why not try it if you are up for an engineering challenge? I dont believe I've seen someone take a rear clip from a 914 and use it as a starting point for a buggy, though I'm sure someone has.

A few other notes: Engine access after the build would be similar to that in a 914...limited. The term "hellhole" that is applied to the engine compartment in a 914 is well earned. You wouldn't be married to the T4 AC engine of the 914, only to any engine you could adapt to that transaxle that would fit. A waterjacketed motor might be quieter running right behind your head.

Probably all stuff you've thought about. For some, the journey of the build and solving engineering problems is the best part, so if you have that mindset you'll enjoy every minute of sorting this puzzle out.

Best of luck with whatever you build.

Tue Oct 18, 2016 1:05 pm

For comparison if you cut away the body of a 914 and do a tubular rear frame you end up with this. I bet a Buggy body could be adapted with a lot of fiberglass work.

(This is my SCCA E-Modified autocross car with the body panels removed. Sold in 2007)

Mike T

Tue Oct 18, 2016 3:39 pm

I recognize the stock door and what's left of the front hood! It is hard to beat the cornering capability of a 914. The brakes can easily be upgrsded to use 911 ventilated rotors and bigger calipers. With F&R anti-sway bars, little else would come close to its handling.

Tue Oct 18, 2016 6:39 pm

Do a Google search for "formula vee chassis" also search "Porsche 550 chassis" for ideas.

I raced a dune buggy for 15 years in autocross. Then I bought and modified an old JSC chassis to make it midengine Handling was heads and tails above the rear engine car.

I'm starting a mid-engine chassis build this winter for a black-ops project.

brad

Tue Oct 18, 2016 7:45 pm

I've seen a few FV's modified for street duty, pretty cool. I was looking at one for sale up here in the PNW but (thankfully) it was sold to someone who I expect has more garage space for such toys than I do. The primary drawback to them in my opinion is the lack of a passenger seat to share the ride with friends you haven't petrified yet.

BIGMIKEY, your ride there is really cool too. And I think you are right, with some extensive and creative FG work you could plop a buggy body on to that.

Since the OP said "coachbuilt" car and not specifically a dune buggy his options may be greater and allow for a number of different kit car bodies to be used on something like the project he is considering. I'll guess that the 914 layout is low enough to accommodate many of the kits designed for beetle pans.

Wed Oct 19, 2016 1:51 pm

Trick for mid-engine is getting a suitable transaxle that can handle the torque of the powerplant, then designing a rear suspension that will work with the selected trans (plus suitable axles, CVs, hubs, etc) so it all works together. VW, Porsche, Audi and Subaru are the more popular choices for the trans.

For suspension, I like the T-bird IRS rear uprights with plenty of aftermarket support for brakes, 5-lugh hubs, etc. from the kit Cobra world.

The simplest route is flipping a swingaxle trans around and running a buggy/sand-car/formula Vee style set-up.
Jeff

Wed Oct 19, 2016 3:52 pm

slalombuggy wrote: I'm starting a mid-engine chassis build this winter for a black-ops project

... you, too? 😎

bnc

Wed Oct 19, 2016 7:31 pm

didget69 wrote: slalombuggy wrote: I'm starting a mid-engine chassis build this winter for a black-ops project

... you, too? 😎

bnc

HAHA, I bet mine will be faster than yours :snipersmile:

brad

Tue Apr 04, 2017 3:54 am

That's always how it starts.....always....

5 years later, it'll end up looking like somebody's trike project in the classifieds....

Hey guys, what's shakin?

WilliamA

Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:22 pm

https://rorty.net/mid-engine-v8-beetle
mid engine beetle.
His design is set up for a V8, but with proper compartmentalising, an aircooled would work also.

Rob

Tue Apr 18, 2017 5:10 pm

914 swing-arms and coilover shocks

Tue Apr 18, 2017 5:55 pm

I'll just leave this here.....

Tue Apr 18, 2017 5:59 pm

GS guy, I'd prefer you leave it in my garage....

Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:30 pm

GS guy wrote: I'll just leave this here.....

Maybe I missed it - I couldn't find your Sale ad on the Samba. Where is it? 😁

bnc