TheSamba.com :: View topic - WARNING! Wrong Oetiker clamps for 5/16 fuel hose

Wed Oct 19, 2016 8:26 am

note* I edited the title to reflect the fact that I'm a dumb ass.

I made a discovery while doing some engine bay work last weekend and thought I should add it here. It may very well be user error, but I will choose to suffer the public shaming and ridicule that I am due in order to save somebody else's van in the future.

I "rehosed" my '84 westy last spring and used 5/16 Gates hose to do so (as per some recommendation on this forum) because I couldn't find the metric hose at the time. I bought the corresponding oetiker clamps thinking I was making the best choice for safety. Installed, crimped, checked for leaks, fired up the van, all good. Drove it for 6 months no issues. Until I was cleaning grounds in the engine bay the other day...

--Long story short-- I found that under pressure from the pump, if I moved the fuel rails at all they leaked. No leaks when left alone mind you, but ANY movement and they leaked. I mean if I poked them with my finger they dripped fuel (on the exhaust!) and if I twisted them the SPRAYED fuel all over!

The clamps were tight enough that they left significant imprints on the hose when I removed them and they were fully crimped. I was, however, able to pull the hose off the rails without releasing the clamp and without a lot of effort, so they were definitely not tight on the inside.

It doesn't seem to be an issue at any of the other connections in the bay but I guess maybe the fuel rails have slightly smaller barbs or something.

Anyway, switched to screw clamps and the problem is resolved. Maybe I'm a jackass and did something wrong but I just wanted to put it out there in case it saves some other jackass's van. I'm just glad I found it.

Wed Oct 19, 2016 8:42 am

jfu057 wrote: --Long story short-- I found that under pressure from the pump, if I moved the fuel rails at all they leaked. No leaks when left alone mind you, but ANY movement and they leaked. I mean if I poked them with my finger they dripped fuel (on the exhaust!) and if I twisted them the SPRAYED fuel all over!

Thanks for trying to help other vanagon owners. Almost anything can be done wrong even with all the right parts. To be useful as a teachable moment, we need pics of the connections that leaked. Did you take pics?

Wed Oct 19, 2016 9:50 am

15.7 is the correct size to use for that size hose. What size was installed? We've installed hundred of those clamps on fuel lines and recommend them over worm drive clamps.

This right here tells me that they were the wrong size clamps or incorrectly installed
jfu057 wrote: I was, however, able to pull the hose off the rails without releasing the clamp and without a lot of effort, so they were definitely not tight on the inside.

Wed Oct 19, 2016 12:12 pm

the oetiker clamp i found on the wolrd wide web is a crimped style, I dont care for that kind.

I use 5/16 inch hose, 30R9 type (lined hose). you should be using lined hose to resist todays government mandated fuels that rot out rubber, promote metal corrossion, cost more per gallon, delievers worse mileage per gallon, cuases lean running in car with no oxygen sensor, and actuallynpollutes more than traditional gasoline when production of this inferior fuel is taken into account, but hey it keeps the corn lobby happy.
Make sure your gates hose is lined.

at anyrate, I have had success with Ideal brand fuel injection rate clamps that are tightened by a screw and nut. of course you MUST use the right sized clamp for the hose. For example, the ideal 3/8 inch clamps will not tighten enough on a 5/16 inch hose, sure they will bottom out on the threads and appear to be tight, but they wont hold the hose well.

I suggest you try the 5/16 inch ideal brand injection rated clamps....

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/idc-52f15?ibanner=MobileSwitchNo

note they fit a nominal 1/2 inch outside diameter hose, which corresponds with a 5/16 inch inside diameter hose. i use these and once tightened I cannot pull the hose off. an added plus is they are reusable, and only require a screw driver for install, removal, unlike the single use oetiker type.

so clamp down on them leaks, use a better clamp!

do not forget to install a fuel rated hose in place of the factory vaccum hose on the fuel pressure regulator, and clamp both ends. if the regulator diaphram fails, high pressure fuel (as much as 100 psi) will be sent thru the vacuum hose, and if that vacuum hose splits, leaks or pops off, you will have a nifty gasoline shower on your motor. if the hose is sound, the leak will be contained to the intake system, and simply stall out the motor, which will stop the fuel pump. be safe

good luck

ps them crimped hose clamps are oft prefered by the factory becuase they are cheap, fast, and easy to install with automation, they have the propper pnuematic tool to crimp them down tight. Most do it your selfers dont have that pnuematic tool, and dont have a time contraint so they are better off with the screw type clamps. the crimped clamps are not better in ability, but they are better from a mass production standpoint.

Wed Oct 19, 2016 12:25 pm

Thanks for responding.

hans j: I will try to find the packaging for the remaining clamps that I have. I don't remember off hand but it was recommended for that hose at the time of purchase. I believe it was 9/16 inches but I will verify that.

Like I said the clamps were fully crimped and tight enough to imprint onto the hose quite apparently when they were removed. elsewhere in the bay they seem to be fine and I was unable to pull them off. It was only at the plastic fuel rail barbs where they seemed to be loose.

Sodo: here is a pic of the clamps before I replaced them. Please let me know if they seem incorrect.

Wed Oct 19, 2016 12:40 pm

jfu057 wrote:
Sodo: here is a pic of the clamps before I replaced them. Please let me know if they seem incorrect.

[pic]

no clamp on the injector???? cant see it in the photo anyway.

Wed Oct 19, 2016 1:34 pm

bluebus86 wrote: no clamp on the injector????

See this is the public shaming I mentioned in the original post :)

yeah I saw that when I did them and added a clamp to those. Believe it or not that wasn't leaking at all.

bluebus86 wrote: do not forget to install a fuel rated hose in place of the factory vaccum hose on the fuel pressure regulator, and clamp both ends.

I was unaware of this, thanks for the advice!

Wed Oct 19, 2016 1:36 pm

bluebus86 wrote: I suggest you try the 5/16 inch ideal brand injection rated clamps....

these are exactly what I went with this time.

Wed Oct 19, 2016 1:52 pm

jfu057 wrote: bluebus86 wrote: no clamp on the injector????

See this is the public shaming I mentioned in the original post :)

yeah I saw that when I did them and added a clamp to those. Believe it or not that wasn't leaking at all.

bluebus86 wrote: do not forget to install a fuel rated hose in place of the factory vaccum hose on the fuel pressure regulator, and clamp both ends.

I was unaware of this, thanks for the advice!

No shame, its called learning. besides you were smart enough to post and ask, folks that dont, well they end up calling the fire department!

good luck

Wed Oct 19, 2016 2:48 pm

There are several different styles of oetiker clamps and many different sizes. I am interested in knowing exactly which ones you ended up with.
Since you have worm clamps now make sure to check them when the cold comes that is when everything shrinks and leaks can develop.
Thanks for the post.

Wed Oct 19, 2016 3:02 pm

The only time I've had trouble with Oetiker pinch clamps was when I used the wrong size. They have an insane number of sizes which overlap each other. Unclamped it should just fit over whatever you're clamping, if there's much slop, it won't be clamping it properly.

Also, make sure you use a proper pinch clamp tool.

Wed Oct 19, 2016 5:49 pm

syncrodoka wrote: There are several different styles of oetiker clamps and many different sizes. I am interested in knowing exactly which ones you ended up with.
Since you have worm clamps now make sure to check them when the cold comes that is when everything shrinks and leaks can develop.
Thanks for the post.

it was indicated he did not use the worm clamps. rather the injection rated Ideal brand clamps, link on one of my prior posts above.

Wed Oct 19, 2016 6:02 pm

i have found these ss clamps for the fuel hose and i have not had a problem with them. i used the gates 5/16 hose .

http://www.ultimategarage.com/shop/index.php?cPath=309

Wed Oct 19, 2016 7:43 pm

My feedback on the pictures is that the clamps appear to be very loose. The metal should gently bite down into the rubber to achieve the correct pressure. It looks like they are not, and of course being able to pull them off further points to simple undertightening.

Wed Oct 19, 2016 8:28 pm

I haven't used these before, but wanted to see how they work.. anyone see any problems with how this one was crimped?

https://youtu.be/W1qTw8OmbMA?t=5m10s

Thu Oct 20, 2016 3:29 am

pushkick wrote: i have found these ss clamps for the fuel hose and i have not had a problem with them. i used the gates 5/16 hose .

http://www.ultimategarage.com/shop/index.php?cPath=309

I used ABA clamps and they come loose and have to be tightened periodically. I am going to use Oetiker clamps next time.

Fri Oct 21, 2016 5:09 am

I couldn't find the packaging, but I have the remaining clamps in a bin. Based on the markings on the side I believe that these are 1/2" (17.5) clamps. Also, based on the PEX and NSF markings I think they are actually designed for PVC connections....oops. I guess I shouldn't pay attention to automated online recommendations in the future.

Anyway, thanks for the advice and not giving me sh*t for it :)

Thu Sep 21, 2017 9:37 am

Regarding Oetiker clamps, size 14.5 works on the 5/16th o.d. hose. Purchased through GoWesty.
They slip over the end of Gates Barricade 30r14 hose easy enough, but I doubt they will slip over the nipple on the on the fuel rails if they are one the hose.
You can put them on the nipple 1st and push the hose on getting the clamps to slip onto the hose.

Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:57 pm

crimp clamps suck for lines that you might want to disconnect and reconnect at some point. i use CRP 7mm fuel hose and ABA 12mm zinc (not stainless) bolt style clamps on my and others vans. my clamps have about 30-40K on them since install without being touched and no leaks. no need for clamps on the fuel injectors either.

weird how when you use the right parts things just work.

Fri Sep 22, 2017 4:17 am

borninabus wrote:
weird how when you use the right parts things just work.

wish someone had told me that when I redid my AC twice :)

I know the injectors didn't have clamps on them originally but the gates hose is slightly different in size than the original, right? Is that enough reason to clamp them? It probably can't hurt anyway.

I do wish that I had a tool of some kind to remove the pinch clamps. The apparent procedure (according to internets) is to stab oneself repeatedly in the hand with a small flathead screwdriver or snip the end while applying just enough rotational force to snap off whatever vital plastic bit the clamp is attached to. Both of these seem ill conceived to me.