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Tue Oct 25, 2016 5:59 pm

Hello fellow T3 fans and other water cooled folks. My name is Dan, I am 52 years old, and when I was a kid my dad drove a blue 69 squareback to work at JFK airport, commuting to our home in Commack, Long Island NY in the 1970s.
I've come a long way in the past 40 some years but the memory of that squareback never left me. Last week I picked up a 66 T3 and brought her home. I'm expecting a lot of challenges, and hope to scratch a long pestering itch. I've been reading a TON here on Samba, thanks much for all of that! I've got an order for floor pans paid for and on the way, the engine is out, and I'm in that wonderful phase of discovering what I have. It seems my 66 was in the middle of a 12V conversion which I intend to finish with a proper 12v starter and flywheel. The rockers and heater tubes seem ok, but it will get new floors both sides. Here come some pics. Thanks for all of the info I've absorbed already, The shop manuals arrived today.

Tue Oct 25, 2016 6:24 pm

Welcome! I totally understand the family connection and the love for the Squareback. My dad owned a 1972 and was the car I learned to drive with. A few months ago I picked up a '72 as well.

Good luck on your project!

Tue Oct 25, 2016 8:46 pm

That looks like a great starter project for someone "getting their feet wet" in a restoration. Some of the parts might be a little harder to find here in the "salt belt" than others, but the parts are out there, you just have to track them down.
At this point in your resto, you might want to re-think changing the 6 volt starter and flywheel, unless you plan on changing the crank, and grinding out the bellhousing of the trans. It's a lot more work than you think, unless you're building a new engine for it. The 6 volt starter will handle 12 volts, but it turns the engine over faster. Also, some of the 6 to 12 volt starter bushings are made of softer metal than they should be, which can cause a problem down the road (BTDT, replaced it again).
Be sure to post up more pics as you move along, as we like pics here. Good luck with your new project.

Tue Oct 25, 2016 9:22 pm

Welcome home mate! Nice square you have there...I was looking for one when I found my first fasty a couple years ago.
Looking forward to seeing your progress. By the way, which one are you the old pic? hehe

Cheers!

Tue Oct 25, 2016 9:43 pm

Hi Guys! I'm the little guy in the middle with my arms crossed. Gilligan on my left there turned into a Porsche master tech.

Bob, re 6v 12v, The car sort of came to me with not many details, so I'm doing some automotive archeology. The car came to me sans starter, with a 12v alternator in place and 12v bulbs in the sockets. She's been in storage at least 15 years and there was only 1 of 4 bolts holding the engine in, no cables connected, partial brake assemblies and I can't get the engine to rotate 360 by hand. It really is calling out for a total rebuild, if not very close. The flywheel is chewed pretty good. So if I need a flywheel, starter, and have 12v alternators and bulbs I don't see much chance of going back to 6v. The plate where the engine ID stuff is supposed to be looks blank to me, I really don't know what I have here for an engine.
I saw a video about getting the correct 12 v brass starter bushing in the case to fit the 12v starter, is this why you mention the case needs machined for a 12v starter?

I really appreciate the support, interest and tips!

Wed Oct 26, 2016 7:54 am

Bobnotch wrote: That looks like a great starter project for someone "getting their feet wet" in a restoration. Some of the parts might be a little harder to find here in the "salt belt" than others, but the parts are out there, you just have to track them down.
At this point in your resto, you might want to re-think changing the 6 volt starter and flywheel, unless you plan on changing the crank, and grinding out the bellhousing of the trans. It's a lot more work than you think, unless you're building a new engine for it. The 6 volt starter will handle 12 volts, but it turns the engine over faster. Also, some of the 6 to 12 volt starter bushings are made of softer metal than they should be, which can cause a problem down the road (BTDT, replaced it again).
Be sure to post up more pics as you move along, as we like pics here. Good luck with your new project.

To Bob's point - you don't need to change the flywheel and, then, change a lot of other related parts to convert to 12 volt.

I converted my 64 to 12 volt without changing the flywheel/modifying the bellhousing, etc. I got a 12 volt starter with teeth for the 6 volt flywheel. They're about $200 if you get a high torque IMI starter. I don't have to turn the key and hold it - just turn the key enough to engage the switch and the car turns over.

Putting 12 volts on the 6 volt starter will gradually eat the edges of the flywheel because the solenoid begins turning before engaging the gear ring.

Wed Oct 26, 2016 8:03 am

ataraxia wrote: Bobnotch wrote: That looks like a great starter project for someone "getting their feet wet" in a restoration. Some of the parts might be a little harder to find here in the "salt belt" than others, but the parts are out there, you just have to track them down.
At this point in your resto, you might want to re-think changing the 6 volt starter and flywheel, unless you plan on changing the crank, and grinding out the bellhousing of the trans. It's a lot more work than you think, unless you're building a new engine for it. The 6 volt starter will handle 12 volts, but it turns the engine over faster. Also, some of the 6 to 12 volt starter bushings are made of softer metal than they should be, which can cause a problem down the road (BTDT, replaced it again).
Be sure to post up more pics as you move along, as we like pics here. Good luck with your new project.

To Bob's point - you don't need to change the flywheel and, then, change a lot of other related parts to convert to 12 volt.

I converted my 64 to 12 volt without changing the flywheel/modifying the bellhousing, etc. I got a 12 volt starter with teeth for the 6 volt flywheel. They're about $200 if you get a high torque IMI starter. I don't have to turn the key and hold it - just turn the key enough to engage the switch and the car turns over.

Putting 12 volts on the 6 volt starter will gradually eat the edges of the flywheel because the solenoid begins turning before engaging the gear ring.

Yes, Bob is correct.

Wed Oct 26, 2016 1:10 pm

Welcome! Looks like a fun project ahead. I'm also a Cleveland boy (now in Copenhagen, Denmark). Hook up with joey1320 on here, he's in your area and knows a type3 parts source near Columbus. There is also Elmar at Streetsborough Foreign auto. Good guy and may have some stuff in his stash. He helped me out with some stuff recently. Good luck and GO TRIBE!!!!!!

Thu Oct 27, 2016 8:36 pm

Welcome to the community. Look forward to seeing your 66 get some love to get it back on the road. Congrats!

Thu Oct 27, 2016 10:25 pm

start with the body and chassis before you get into the mechanical. make sure you have dents removed to your content and paint put on everywhere you want it before you get ahead of yourself. looks like my squareback but with a little more surface rust. I dont really know how to do floor pans on these but I'm almost sure it will be extremely difficult. Maybe patching the pans would have been your best bet. rip out the old spades on your harness and put new ones on they, are most certainly corroded and brittle, in the case that you are saving the og harness, it will save you time when one fails causing a short later. I did my car ass backwards doing all these things in reverse and regret it. I got away with it because the car was for the most part in overall decent condition. I only mention this because short of a few small managable mechanical issues, rust is the main issue with maintaning the concept of keeping this car until the day you die, which is possible with a decnt paint job and a garage. Welcome you have quite a job ahead, good luck.

Sat Oct 29, 2016 11:48 pm

Hello guys and thanks for all the feedback. I've got some updates and some pics to share. I've been taking the engine apart to see what I've got and cleaning some parts up. The pushrod tubes leaked a bunch and made big clumps underneath, there were a couple of mouse nests in the plumbing but all seems well. The engine now rotates freely, the flywheel is all chewed up, 12v starter at work perhaps??

I would like to have found some numbers on that pad by the fuel pump but ??

At the momont I'm unable to remove this big blower housing, it seems the alignment pins are stuck, but I've been PB blasting them

I fear that I am missing my rear motor mount or 'stabilizer'. Here is a pic looking down at the rear bellows area and it looks like that whole rear mount is gone. I've got an ace welder guy ready to put the floor pans in, shall I source or fabricate a new rear mount for this mighty 1600?

Sun Oct 30, 2016 1:02 am

You could buy or fabricate a rear stabilizer mount if you buy the steel/rubber stabilizer to bolt onto it. I personally think it is overkill unless you are gonna "road race" your 54 horse power 1600 & could be eliminated? You could buy "How to Rebuild Your Volkswagen Air-Cooled Engine" by Tom Wilson as an engine guide. You should pull all 4 fenders to get started on the bodywork as it will take longer than the engine. You can ship fenders etc wrapped on Greyhound. Keep the updates & pictures coming! 8)

Sun Oct 30, 2016 8:46 am

Hi, and welcome to the forum!

When I was looking at your pics, my initial thoughts turned towards the tappage in the rear area.

A good guess as to where your rear mount went; it was a victim of the accident.
They likely had to sacrifice it in order to remove the motor.

If that were my project (take that FWIW),
My focus would be on getting the rear of the car straight.

Once you have the rear fenders off, the extent of the damage will be revealed.
IMHO, the best strategy would be to pull the apron off, based upon what I can see from here.
(I have a decent used apron if you need one)

It would also be worth it to set the whole rear mount right, and use the motor and mount parts in place to get everything re-aligned.
Again, my opinion..

The fit of the rear fenders and rear hatch being off -might- have exacerbated the damage by allowing rust to form, depending upon how long it was there, and how long it sat outside?

You are going to want that rear hatch to seal perfectly to keep from getting fumed out by exhaust.

Dang, if I didn't cut that very same rear mount and bracket off during the butchery of my own car, too... I'll see if I can't find it around here somewhere...

Anyhow, the rear apron/compartment/ductwork area of these cars is quite involved, and prone to rust issues.
Once you get that sorted, all the rest of the car will be easy.

If you can stand t dig thru 70 pages of drivel, I did the apron replacement on my car, and took a bunch of pics..

Have fun!

Sun Oct 30, 2016 11:25 am

Here are some updates, thanks again for the thoughts, guys. I've got the books, a old Amazon $50 gift card came in very handy. I've got the luxury of all winter to play with this project, and I know the time will fly by but I am not in any big hurry. I have a bunch of other cars to drive and she's in a dry heated garage. I'm getting tires/brakes/suspension sorted so she becomes a roller, I'd like to roll it outside to do sandblasting, welding, etc. The two full size green floor pans are on the way. The 1 year goal is a rust free driver.

The engine now spins over freely, but since the pushrod tubes are leaking I guess the heads are going to come off. It will be a good opportunity to check the bores and valves, etc. I'm guessing that means a new set of head bolts. I've got a lot of reading to do!

Sun Oct 30, 2016 12:01 pm

You should find a good machinist to help with the engine rebuild. Our local Carquest machine shop is good with VW's but ask the guys in your local VW Club who they use. Tom Wilson recommends installing case savers/thread savers on page 105 of his engine manual. If you remove front/rear aprons etc that are spot welded on use a spot weld cutter to carefully drill out the spot welds.

Sun Oct 30, 2016 12:18 pm

Get the blue Bentley Type 3 service manual. It will have almost all the info you need.

That Jbugs catalog will be of extremely limited use for your car.

You don't have head bolts, you have studs.

Use a little heat on the fan housing dowel pins. It doesn't usually take much.

I used a 6 volt starter daily for 16 years on my 12 volt 66 Bug and it didn't eat up the ring gear teeth. Don't worry too much about that if you decide to go that route. Just make sure you replace the starter bushing in the transmission case.

I agree with Clatter, it looks like the car has been hit in the back. It can surely be fixed, but it'll take time. That's where the blue Bentley manual will really help, as it has dimensions do body measurements.

Relax, plan your attack, and ask questions here. It's the best place to be!

Sun Oct 30, 2016 12:23 pm

I should have mentioned I have a guy, Chris Young, my local VW tech, is consulting on this build, he just does not know it yet. He is my team mate, co driver and chief mechanic on our 1991 VW Corrado G60 Chump car. He's got his own shop in Amherst, OH and does a lot of air cooled stuff along with later VWs, Audis and Porsches. Anybody else out there have any cool Audis/VWs? Is there a "I have a T3 and my other car is" thread?

Sun Oct 30, 2016 12:39 pm

LOL- The Jbugs catalog just came in the box with the new flywheel, but it has a lot of squareback stuff in it. Most importantly the interior goodies. I need to dream of a finished interior someday to encourage myself to work thru the tough parts like the hit in the rear end and the floors

The old flywheel was chewed up, maybe from a 6v starter and a 6v flywheel running on 12v, who knows but the new one is here.

Christmas morning for an old dude, new parts are all very sweet! here is starter (with new bushing) flywheel, a caliper and some rear brake cables. I love getting boxes with new car parts!

I may take you up on that rear panel offer, I hear a rumor of quarters available nearby, maybe that will be better fix for the left side. If anyone has a section with the rear stabilizer mount on it to sell, I am interested! I also need a right side mirror for a 66, a turn signal stalk and whatever housing might hold a radio some day (WAY down the list)

Sun Oct 30, 2016 1:07 pm

When I acquire an older project, it is always interesting the oddities left behind by the PO. This was on the sun visor, perhaps an idea for someone looking for a last minute Halloween costume!

Sun Oct 30, 2016 1:08 pm

Now that you posted some more pics,
That car actually doesn't look as crusty in the cracks as it might have been looking at the outside..!

Rear stabilizer - you mean the rear "sway" bar thingamajig?
(it's called a "Z-Bar" in these circles)
You need the body mount brackets?

Biggest thing to watch out for these days is aftermarket parts quality.
There are a LOT of parts from China/Mexico/India, etc. that are sub-standard to uselessness..
make sure your new flywheel is not made of dried toothpaste, and that the machinist who made it had his eyes open, if he had eyes at all...