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Fri Oct 28, 2016 6:26 pm

Hello Fellow Samba friends!

quick VIN ID question....

Looking into a VW bus of a friends of mine he might be willing to sell.
Few questions:
Vin has the Kombi ID 2312xxxxx but it has the following options as per the bus and M codes:

It has 13 windows and a clock cut out in the dash??

Can a Kombi have 13 windows and the deluxe clock?? or should I be concerned?
I though all Kombi's (or standards) were only 11 windows???

Thanks for your input.
Happy Weekend!!!

-M

Fri Oct 28, 2016 9:15 pm

That VIN does not make sense. Do you mean that the model number on the M-code plate is 2312?
post pics of VIN and M-code plate.

A 65-67 split bus with VIN 23x xxx xxx should be a kombi and not have 13 windows. The third digit of VIN would be 5, 6, or 7, for the model year 1965, '66 or '67.
Something is odd.

Fri Oct 28, 2016 10:07 pm

Yes, you say 2312xxxxx

This sort of sounds like a 1971 VIN, except it would have one more digit, with 6x's after 2312, example:
2312 xxx xxx

Sat Oct 29, 2016 5:26 am

sorry guys... I really should never samba post and whiskey ;)
the picture my friend sent me of the m plate is hard to see...

top left #: 23 9

option codes: 425 002 013 043 080 114

the vin # row is: UD 2312131383 6031596

that's all on the M plate...

thanks again and sorry for the sad post info last night.

-M

Sat Oct 29, 2016 5:57 am

The VIN is 236 031 596
The Mcode plate is from a 66 Kombi. Not a 13 window

Is that the bus it is on?
Does it match the stamped in.VIN to the right of the engine ?
How about the tag on the right side of fresh air vent?

You want all the Numbers to match and to match the bus and the title. Otherwise something is hinky which means walk away or get it for a reduced price.

Sat Oct 29, 2016 6:14 am

Thanks Clara! I am going sometime this weekend in person to take a look.
I do know there was rust repair done in the past 10 years... but I will certainly verify the engine # and fresh air vent # match.
I do know from pic's that there are 13 windows (the back ones do not looked hacked in, and the hole in the dash for the clock looks correct. (he has the clock)

Like you stated all negotiation points.

Thanks again for the help!

:)

-M

Sat Oct 29, 2016 8:16 am

where the numbers should be:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/id.php

Sat Oct 29, 2016 10:09 am

Thanks campingbox....

The plot thickens.

The VIN on the title matches the M code plate???

No plate on the side of the fresh air vent... I still need to see the one in the engine compartment.
Still going to look at it tomorrow.

And it's not a walk through... so that M code plate must be wrong as well as the title.... I am curious what the engine compartment plate has.

Thanks again for all your help

-M

Sat Oct 29, 2016 10:48 am

While I am thinking of this....
If The VIN # in the engine compartment is different from the M code plate I am sure the M code plate was swapped out at some point.

Question:

If you have a title that is incorrect (quite possible at some point in time the incorrect M code plate was used to verify the title).. Is it possible to have the title VIN # changed BACK to the correct (verified) VIN #???

I am just curious as I do not want to inherit a hot mess no matter how much of a bargain I can get.

I also want to revive this bus and hate to see it sit and rot.

Thanks :)
-M

Sat Oct 29, 2016 11:47 am

This sounds a lot like a deluxe I used to own. So what year is the VIN and what color is it?

Sat Oct 29, 2016 12:29 pm

The VIN on the overhead fresh air vent is: 255138016

This sounds like a '65 deluxe.
That would explain the 13 windows and the clock in the dash.
(it also was white on top and SWR)

Sun Oct 30, 2016 5:49 am

going to check this out sometime today. I need to see this vin issue in person.
wish me luck

Sun Oct 30, 2016 5:49 am

Sounds like your friend has a 65 hardtop deluxe with the mcode plate and title from a 66 kombi.
The rules for getting a title vary from state to state. Look into it.
I would expect a serious discount for having a title issue.

I would be better if it had its matching Mcode plate and no title. Imo

Sun Oct 30, 2016 6:25 am

Don't forget your camera. Hint, hint...

Sun Oct 30, 2016 7:06 am

Oh don't you worry Sh*tbird....
iPhone fully charged.
This could turn into a bus hunting thread soon.

Hopefully.

I just need to see that the stamped # in the engine compartment matches the overhead fresh air vent plate.

Sun Oct 30, 2016 8:29 am

Clara wrote: Sounds like your friend has a 65 hardtop deluxe with the mcode plate and title from a 66 kombi.
The rules for getting a title vary from state to state. Look into it.
I would expect a serious discount for having a title issue.

I would be better if it had its matching Mcode plate and no title. Imo

This^^.

Given what you've posted, there is a title issue with the bus that should carry significant weight in negotiations. IMO, a missing or incorrect M-code plate is not as important as a verifiable VIN found in the engine bay. Without that stamped VIN, there is no way to ever know the true identity of a bus. If the stamped VIN matches the overhead VIN plate, the bus is a 65 deluxe and should be titled as such. Even if the overhead VIN doesn't match, the stamped VIN takes priority over all others and should be used to title the bus.

In short, the bus may not be as odd as it seems, possibly only having an incorrect m-code plate which was used for the title. Still, the bus needs to be titled correctly, in accordance with its proper VIN, to keep your mind at ease. How difficult that will be will depend on the presence of the stamped VIN, its matching with the overhead plate, and the titling rules of your particular state. You must ask yourself this question, however: Why was this bus titled incorrectly? Could have been a simple error by a PO who used the m-code plate which had been added by someone else. Could have been an attempt to title a stolen bus. These are the things to discuss in your negotiations as they are very important to any future owner and affect the value of the bus.

Sun Oct 30, 2016 8:47 am

Be prepared if you go in to rectify the titling issues and the stamped vin has a issue you will loose it on the spot.
Still curious about this bus as I had the same scenario on my deluxe years ago

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=298314&highlight=friend

Sun Oct 30, 2016 9:26 am

slow36hp wrote: Be prepared if you go in to rectify the titling issues and the stamped vin has a issue you will loose it on the spot.
Still curious about this bus as I had the same scenario on my deluxe years ago

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=298314&highlight=friend

Yes, losing the bus is a strong possibility if the stamped VIN turns out to belong to a stolen vehicle. Due diligence is advised, and use all resources (internet, for example) to check the VIN before negotiating. If the VIN comes up as stolen, walk away after informing the seller. If you're certain the VIN is clear, use the title discrepancy as a legitimate bargaining point.

Sun Oct 30, 2016 2:48 pm

Thank you guys for all your suggestions and help!
The VIN stamped in the engine compartment matches the overhead fresh air vent. I confirmed that with my own eyeballs.

I have an agreement of sale with a deposit (refundable). :)
I did put a contingency clause on there about the OG VIN.
I will look into the original VIN of 255138016. I want to make sure this VIN comes up as clean in the eyes of the state of PA.
On a side note the current owner bought it off the First owners daughter that inherited it from her father decades ago. The current owner pulled it from a farm field back in 2004 that was the families farm that bought it brand new back in 1965.

It's super solid. Definitely needs work but I love the thought of rescuing this bus from sitting out all winter. (the owner lost his garage)
As soon as I verify that the title is clean I will post pictures on the bus hunting thread.

Thanks again

as always... any extra additional suggestions and $0.02 of your knowledge is greatly appreciated.

Cheers!
-M

Sun Oct 30, 2016 3:02 pm

I just couldn't own a car with funky paperwork, even if I was given the blessing of the dmv/state patrol. It would always annoy me in the back of my brain, and the next buyer is going to go through the same process you are. When you sell it, you're going to have to go through this whole 15 min dog and pony show with every potential buyer explaining that, "The fake VIN is legit, but who knows if the original one was."

The reality is: Sometime, somewhere for some reason (benign or not), someone did something very shady. And it would always bother me.

Ps question for those that have better memory than me: Did that blue bus that was recovered like 5 years ago after 30 years have the proper paperwork? If I remember right I'd did. I'm too lazy to read the 40 pages again.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=385148&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0[/url]

If I remember right the take away message was to never sell or drive it out of state. :lol: