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Wed Dec 21, 2016 4:02 pm

So I have a 73 square and I am working on getting it to be my daily driver. I just got new LED's for the tail lights but now the Fuse relay for the turn signals went bad. I got a new one that I thought would work from Advance Auto (12.8V) and I am wondering if it won't work. The og relay started buzzing and died. A mechanic suggested I check all the grounds. Any ideas?

Wed Dec 21, 2016 4:18 pm

My knowledge about LED lights is pretty limited, but I do know with some cars, you have to use a relay meant for LED lights and/or add resistors in order to get the lights to blink and not cause problems

On new new cars, LED lights can throw error codes and cause a lot of problems. You should tak to someone that knows LED and change the title of the post

Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:22 pm

I'm not sure about a '73 but Erik is correct - a lot of LED bulb require you to upgrade to a solid state (modern) turn signal relay.
Is that what you bought?

The original relays worked in a way where the resistance of the bulb helped them turn on/off. LEDs don't have that resistance.

If the bulbs no longer flash this may be the issue.
Usually if there is a grounding problem with one of bulbs, the original turn signals would flash faster because that bulb wasn't providing the resistance needed to make the turn signals flash at a normal speed.

Wed Dec 21, 2016 7:10 pm

I've got LEDs for turn, brake, dash and interior lights. You will have to swap out the old style resistance relay for an electronic relay to get the LEDs to work properly.

A 73 should have a commonly used relay so finding its electronic equivalent should be relatively easy.

Wed Dec 21, 2016 7:38 pm

Could I ask do you have a link to the ones you got?

Thu Dec 22, 2016 1:44 pm

I bought mine from Superbrite leds , they work well and are nice and bright
They sell the relay flashers as well

https://www.superbrightleds.com/vehicle/1973-volks...;year=1973

Thu Dec 22, 2016 2:25 pm

ataraxia wrote: I've got LEDs for turn, brake, dash and interior lights. You will have to swap out the old style resistance relay for an electronic relay to get the LEDs to work properly.

A 73 should have a commonly used relay so finding its electronic equivalent should be relatively easy.

I put an electronic relay on my '71, though I'm not sure the '73 uses the same one. It was a Tridon EP-35.

Thu Dec 22, 2016 4:16 pm

Joliver5 wrote: Could I ask do you have a link to the ones you got?

Just match the one you have now with an electronic one - I don't remember what it was specifically. They're easy to find.

Tue Jan 31, 2017 12:18 pm

Bringing this up again, as I have an LED issue.

To lighten the load on my generator (now with its spiffy new electronic regulator), I swapped out all exterior bulbs for LEDs. This also was meant to deal with the turn signals "on" part of the cycle being a bit short as the bulb filaments heated up. This, despite using an electronic relay in place of the original unit. I had previously changed the dash warning bulbs to LEDs with no ill effect.

But now, with the LED external turn bulbs, they shine brighter of course, and also have a desired longer "on" time since they come on instantly. The on-off interval is about the same as far as the relay clicks are concerned. It's the "instant on" of the LEDs that makes them more noticeable to traffic. Success!

However, my green dash lights do not flash. They come on with the 4-ways, but not with the turn signals. If I look closely, they come on VERY dimly, but you wouldn't notice unless you looked for it. As I said, the relay flashes to the same beat, but the pair of green dash lights do not come on.

I am guessing that the load is TOO light, even for the electronic flasher. With both sides (4-way flashers), it's enough load, but with only one side (turn signal) it is not. Speculation, but what else could it be? I am loath to add a resistor, since the lower current was one of the reasons I went to LED.

Anyone else seen this?

Wed Feb 01, 2017 9:30 am

Which flasher unit are you using? Electronic flashers have no minimum load and adding a resister won't help...

My front, side marker, rear lamps and dash bulbs are all LED. I haven't had any issues with my LED turn indicators with an electronic flasher.

Not much help toward resolving your problem, unfortunately...

Wed Feb 01, 2017 10:23 am

ataraxia wrote: Which flasher unit are you using? Electronic flashers have no minimum load and adding a resister won't help...

Tridon EP-35

Anyone successfully using a different electronic unit?

Weird that it works fine with the 4-ways, but not the turn signals. On the '71 the same relay works both. That's why I wondered if even this electronic relay has a lower load limit.

One more thing to check first. My right front lamp assembly has both the side marker and running/turn bulbs. The latter works fine, but even with a new bulb my right front parking lamp does not work. I'll remove the assembly and check grounds and contacts. It is maybe possible that is hanging something up. I doubt it, since that should only mess up the right turn signal; but since the parking lamps share a circuit, there may be something shorting or open there.

Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:35 am

KTPhil wrote:

Anyone else seen this?

You just described the exact same issue that I am currently experiencing. Did you ever find a solution?

I recently wrote to the owner of 'Classic Car LEDs' and he replied with the following:

"Many VW's use a switched negative for the blinker indicator lamp rather than the switched live required for LEDs. You may wish to re-wire the lamp to run directly from the P tab on our flasher relay and then to earth (ground) which may solve the issue? If not, you are likely to be suffering voltage drop somewhere in the system that may cause this issue?"

Here is the schematic that came with his kit:

I am not sure what he is referring to with: 'switched negative', but could that be the culprit?

I already had mine wired with the gauge bulbs connected to the 'P' terminal he mentioned.

In my attempts to solve the issue, I also tried a different led relay, which happened to have terminals labeled the same as the original (31, K, 49, 49a) and it still unfortunately did not solve the issue.

Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:50 pm

He's off base, at least with regards to the later turn/4-way flashers. With the 4-ways sharing that same relay through a complex switch, it isn't as easy as just switching the relay contacts around. On an older car without 4-way flashers, this may work, though.

His comment about voltage drops is also not the case for me... since it works fine with an incandescent dash indicator bulb. But it does hint that there may still be a current minimum for that relay.

I just live with it. The clicking and self-canceling make it work fine in actual driving.

Wed Apr 14, 2021 3:12 pm

Another reply from Classic LEDs. Just thought it may be useful...

"The standard VW wiring has the warning light powered from the exterior circuit and uses a switched negative. For the lamp to work with the LEDs and flasher relay supplied, the warning lamp needs to be powered directly from the P tab on the flasher unit and then grounded the other side."

Wed Apr 14, 2021 3:18 pm

The little lights in the dash cluster are supposed to be reverse polarity bulbs - I use the LEDs from Star LED and they work fine.

Everywhere else - I am using regular LED bulbs without issue.

Wed Apr 14, 2021 3:59 pm

ataraxia wrote: The little lights in the dash cluster are supposed to be reverse polarity bulbs - I use the LEDs from Star LED and they work fine.

Everywhere else - I am using regular LED bulbs without issue.

Got a link for the turn signal dash bulb?

Wed Apr 14, 2021 4:04 pm

http://auto-hub.com/type-3/

It doesn't appear that they differentiate them anymore - maybe they work on either polarity now since they work on both 6 and 12 volt. They used to be separate products. Or maybe they just ship them without explicitly stating that they're reverse polarity? The order form is different from when I ordered them years ago.

Ahhh, technology...

Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:25 am

I sent one last email to the seller and inquired about using reverse polarity LED BA7's in the cluster.
He replied:

"It's not a polarity issue but a feed issue so changing the LED for one with different polarity would make no difference.
Our electronic relays will drive LED and filament lamps equally well assuming the switching is correct.'

Fri Apr 16, 2021 9:32 am

ataraxia wrote: http://auto-hub.com/type-3/

It doesn't appear that they differentiate them anymore - maybe they work on either polarity now since they work on both 6 and 12 volt. They used to be separate products. Or maybe they just ship them without explicitly stating that they're reverse polarity? The order form is different from when I ordered them years ago.

Ahhh, technology...

I also ordered dash bulbs from here last year. Except for the very slow response probably due to covid for a missing bulb, the dash bulbs works fine. (Finally received the missing bulb.)

I changed out all my exterior bulbs except for the turn signal bulbs from https://www.superbrightleds.com/. They also work fine. I just didn't want to deal with the relay thing for the turn signals for now.

BTW, I also bought some LED H4 bulbs. https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B07TQLK6SH/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1. They seem to be fine. But some have opined that a white headlight really goes against "classic" cars. I can see that point of view...

Sat Apr 17, 2021 7:10 am

pitargue wrote: ataraxia wrote: http://auto-hub.com/type-3/

It doesn't appear that they differentiate them anymore - maybe they work on either polarity now since they work on both 6 and 12 volt. They used to be separate products. Or maybe they just ship them without explicitly stating that they're reverse polarity? The order form is different from when I ordered them years ago.

Ahhh, technology...

I also ordered dash bulbs from here last year. Except for the very slow response probably due to covid for a missing bulb, the dash bulbs works fine. (Finally received the missing bulb.)

I changed out all my exterior bulbs except for the turn signal bulbs from https://www.superbrightleds.com/. They also work fine. I just didn't want to deal with the relay thing for the turn signals for now.

BTW, I also bought some LED H4 bulbs. https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B07TQLK6SH/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1. They seem to be fine. But some have opined that a white headlight really goes against "classic" cars. I can see that point of view...

The relay is the easiest part - get the part number off of your current relay and add "LED" when you Google it. I found mine at a local auto parts store.