TheSamba.com :: View topic - *Insulation* - 3M Thinsulate

Tue Mar 14, 2017 10:22 am

I am going to be installing insulation very soon in my bus, and I have been torn for years on which way to go.
3M Thinsulate (the automotive material, not the clothing material) seems to be the top of the line in terms of thermal and acoustic insulation.

I have already thoroughly deadened my interior with fat mat, so I don't really need the acoustic piece. I'm after thermal only.

Here's where I'm at:
1) These buses leak air like a sieve.
2) The bubble wrap stuff is cheap, but I honestly cannot see this product doing much of anything at all insulation-wise. I also am not sure I want another metallic surface for condensation to build up on.
3) 3M Thinsulate is expensive. I do not mind spending the dough if it's worth it. I doubt any of you have used this, but you never know... :D
4) Ronnie (Bustoration) says to use the rigid closed cell foam stuff that you can get at Home Depot. This stuff seems like it would be a pain in the ass to install (like in the ceiling).

Anybody care to have an insulation discussion to help me make up my mind once and for all?

Tue Mar 14, 2017 11:28 am

Mr. Electric Wizard wrote:
2) The bubble wrap stuff is cheap, but I honestly cannot see this product doing much of anything at all insulation-wise. I also am not sure I want another metallic surface for condensation to build up on.

I concur - it's useless.

Quote:
3) 3M Thinsulate is expensive. I do not mind spending the dough if it's worth it. I doubt any of you have used this, but you never know... :D

In a bus, you don't really have the restrictions that would drive you to use something like Thinsulate; you have a lot of thickness to work with.

Quote:
4) Ronnie (Bustoration) says to use the rigid closed cell foam stuff that you can get at Home Depot. This stuff seems like it would be a pain in the ass to install (like in the ceiling).

In my Unimog, I used a closed-cell foam with an adhesive back that was actually very easy to install. Cut and test-fit before you pull the backing off and you should be fine. Don't try to install too large of a piece at one time. This stuff helped with both the acoustics and keeping the heat down; the dynamat/fatmat really only helps with the lower frequencies.

https://www.mcmaster.com/#5692T49

https://www.mcmaster.com/#5692T53

Tue Mar 14, 2017 11:30 am

not sure about the 3M stuff but I used a 4x8 sheet of R-TECH.. I believe it was the 1/2 inch. No glue just placed in by pressure and it works great. $11 bucks..

Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:42 pm

thom wrote:
In my Unimog, I used a closed-cell foam with an adhesive back that was actually very easy to install. Cut and test-fit before you pull the backing off and you should be fine. Don't try to install too large of a piece at one time. This stuff helped with both the acoustics and keeping the heat down; the dynamat/fatmat really only helps with the lower frequencies.

https://www.mcmaster.com/#5692T49
https://www.mcmaster.com/#5692T53

Neither one of these products has any data on thermal insulation.
It's so interesting that bus peeps don't do much in the way of insulation, while the MB Sprinter guys do tons of it. Some people may be cheap, but I don't consider myself to be.

Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:44 pm

johny__utah wrote: not sure about the 3M stuff but I used a 4x8 sheet of R-TECH.. I believe it was the 1/2 inch. No glue just placed in by pressure and it works great. $11 bucks..

This is the rigid stuff right? I think this is what Ronnie was talking about.
Did you do this in the ceiling as well as the walls?

Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:51 pm

Mr. Electric Wizard wrote: thom wrote:
In my Unimog, I used a closed-cell foam with an adhesive back that was actually very easy to install. Cut and test-fit before you pull the backing off and you should be fine. Don't try to install too large of a piece at one time. This stuff helped with both the acoustics and keeping the heat down; the dynamat/fatmat really only helps with the lower frequencies.

https://www.mcmaster.com/#5692T49
https://www.mcmaster.com/#5692T53

Neither one of these products has any data on thermal insulation.
It's so interesting that bus peeps don't do much in the way of insulation, while the MB Sprinter guys do tons of it. Some people may be cheap, but I don't consider myself to be.

If you're looking for the R-value, you might have to look up the MSDS and other corresponding data sheets from the respective manufacturers. I used 1/2" Armaflex (elastomeric) sheets with self-adhering (peel-and-stick) backing, which has an R-value of 2.1. There are certainly better R-value products out there, but that alone made a world of difference in terms of cab temperature and sound attenuation. My 2 cents.

Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:12 pm

62DoKaGuy wrote:
If you're looking for the R-value, you might have to look up the MSDS and other corresponding data sheets from the respective manufacturers. I used 1/2" Armaflex (elastomeric) sheets with self-adhering (peel-and-stick) backing, which has an R-value of 2.1. There are certainly better R-value products out there, but that alone made a world of difference in terms of cab temperature and sound attenuation. My 2 cents.

Why did you only go with the 1/2"? My measurements show that the roof is able to accept up to 7/8" material thickness, and the walls are about the same.

Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:15 pm

Mr. Electric Wizard wrote: 62DoKaGuy wrote:
If you're looking for the R-value, you might have to look up the MSDS and other corresponding data sheets from the respective manufacturers. I used 1/2" Armaflex (elastomeric) sheets with self-adhering (peel-and-stick) backing, which has an R-value of 2.1. There are certainly better R-value products out there, but that alone made a world of difference in terms of cab temperature and sound attenuation. My 2 cents.

Why did you only go with the 1/2"? My measurements show that the roof is able to accept up to 7/8" material thickness, and the walls are about the same.

BLUF: It's what I had. I'm not picky or in that much of a need in Northern California. Never too cold, and when the Summer heat hits, there's little to stop me from sweating in a non-AC vehicle haha. Cheers.

Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:19 pm

Nothing keeping one from doubling up either, for added R-value.
Cheap stuff @ $28 for a 3x4 foot sheet.
Would be a heck of a lot easier to deal with than the rigid stuff.
Is this the stuffs:
https://www.amazon.com/Armacell-CXS12043-sheet-Arm...cell+sheet

Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:32 pm

Mr. Electric Wizard wrote: Nothing keeping one from doubling up either, for added R-value.
Cheap stuff @ $28 for a 3x4 foot sheet.
Would be a heck of a lot easier to deal with than the rigid stuff.
Is this the stuffs:
https://www.amazon.com/Armacell-CXS12043-sheet-Arm...cell+sheet

Yep, same base material the black foam rubber or elastomeric, although without the self-adhering backing. No matter, you can buy a can of spray glue from the Depot and save a bunch vs. buying the rubber sheets with factory, sticky backing. I'm an insulator by trade; so, I have access to a lot more scrap and waste of less common insulation products and options. Still, I went the cheap route haha.

If you're in Austin, you shouldn't have too much for crazy weather to deal with, although my time at Hood showed that it can snow in Central Texas! Cheers.

Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:34 pm

About all we have is heat, similarly to Sacramento!

Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:10 am

Mr. Electric Wizard wrote: johny__utah wrote: not sure about the 3M stuff but I used a 4x8 sheet of R-TECH.. I believe it was the 1/2 inch. No glue just placed in by pressure and it works great. $11 bucks..

This is the rigid stuff right? I think this is what Ronnie was talking about.
Did you do this in the ceiling as well as the walls?

no glue needed. like you said a bit rigid but accepts the roofs curve. the front panels are the aluminum r-tech. I painted them grey for a last minute show :lol:

I did my entire bus with this stuff and cost a total of 25 bucks or so..
the side panels can get a little messy so use a very sharp blade and take your time. Its my daily driver and I camp all year long.

Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:25 am

How much do you spend a year on chloroform?

johny__utah wrote:

Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:33 am

thom wrote: How much do you spend a year on chloroform?

I love your posts thom! :lol: :lol: :lol:

Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:36 am

johny__utah wrote: no glue needed. like you said a bit rigid but accepts the roofs curve. the front panels are the aluminum r-tech. I painted them grey for a last minute show :lol:
I did my entire bus with this stuff and cost a total of 25 bucks or so..
the side panels can get a little messy so use a very sharp blade and take your time. Its my daily driver and I camp all year long.

Is this the stuff:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/R-Tech-1-2-in-x-4-ft-x-8-ft-R-1-93-Insulating-Sheathing-320810/202533656

Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:58 am

Mr. Electric Wizard wrote: I am going to be installing insulation very soon in my bus, and I have been torn for years on which way to go....

I have already thoroughly deadened my interior with fat mat, so I don't really need the acoustic piece. I'm after thermal only.

I installed fat mat in my kombi, and did not really notice a sound difference with fat mat alone.
A friend of mine who had tried fat mat and dynamat said it is worth springing the extra cost for dynamat.

Quote: Here's where I'm at:
1) These buses leak air like a sieve.
The difference between heating a drafty bus and a sealed up bus is amazing.

Quote: 2) The bubble wrap stuff is cheap, but I honestly cannot see this product doing much of anything at all insulation-wise. I also am not sure I want another metallic surface for condensation to build up on.

I installed the bubble wrap stuff in the roof on a 67 Riviera I had . It was a hot day and was hot and uncomfortable in the bus. As soon as I put that insulation up there it was vastly cooler and more comfortable.
I installed two layers and then the roof panels.

I don't know that it's the best kind of insulation, not having done a rigid comparison. Just that I've used it and it worked. Easy to use and fit.

The fat mat did not make a difference in noisiness in the kombi by itself. When I added two layers of bubble insulation and the panels in the back it did make it quieter. It stayed warmer in the back when camping too. It is too drafty to get heat in the back when driving, though. :lol:
I didn't drive it between insulation and panels.

My April 61 deluxe is quieter. It has full interior paneling and headliner. I never removed the panels in the back, I don't know if it has any insulation back there. The long panel has been out at some point as the armrests were missing when I got it. It still has tar strips over the motor, no carpet, but a foam bed cushion in back. I added the cab door and kick panels, as they were missing, but I am not sure if I added insulation, it was a long time ago.
I did a bunch of balancing when I built the motor.

Putting door panels in the kombi kept the outside leg much warmer, even w/o insulation. Roof panels (2 layers insulation) kept the noggin warmer.

We put the bubble insulation and a interior panel kit in a local DC. When I asked him later if it was warmer, he said the truck didn't have heat, but it was definitely quieter.

I think the key is having insulation and paneling in. Install it already.

Wed Mar 15, 2017 10:18 am

Clara wrote:
I think the key is having insulation and paneling in. Install it already.

Seriously, right? :D

Wed Mar 15, 2017 1:09 pm

yes that's it. Doors shut quieter, less road noise and keeps us cozy! Since these pic's I've installed the cab roof panels and they clear just fine. Even better once I install the roof panels. I recommend it, even if its just for the ceiling.

Wed Mar 15, 2017 5:54 pm

Interesting stuff...

I have been looking for a source of the 3M acoustic thinsulate to put in my bus. Just for the acoustics, although I wonder if it would keep my bus cooler in the summer. That's beside the point.
What I am wondering is, have you found a source for the 3M stuff through a jobber outlet, or are you looking at amazon, Ebay and the likes?

And, my $.02....if it is a camper and stock motor, I would buy the lightest insulation possible.

Gordo.

Wed Mar 15, 2017 8:15 pm

I used the rigid foam, 1/2" and 3/4" thick. It can be formed for a roof curve.

Haven't done any camping yet, so don't know about the temp inside.
There are more photos on my thread. Or, get in touch and I can come by and help you.