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Fri Mar 31, 2017 12:37 pm

My 1999 VW Jetta GLX, VR6, 2.8L pulls to the right, and from what the alignment person told me is that the rear tube is bent a bit, and causing toe in, and would have to be tweeked a bit. Sounds like it is not vertical that they would have to pull, but frontwards/backwards. Sounds like it would need to be pulled on a frame machine?

Anybody else have any ideas?

Fri Mar 31, 2017 1:13 pm

Have you checked the bushings on the rear of the front control arms?
If the rear beam is bent enough to cause the car to pull, it's bent pretty bad, I'd suggest replacing the rear beam, they're likely to eat up a lot of labor time trying to straighten the existing one.

Fri Mar 31, 2017 1:31 pm

I could ask the person that aligned it about the bushings.
From what he said, it is a tenth of a point within specs of what VW says it should be, but he said it will wear the tires, or just rotate them all the time is option B.

Is the rear beam just a bolt on deal?

Fri Mar 31, 2017 2:17 pm

Shims can be installed at rear stub axle/beam mounting to correct alignment, did they not give you that option or are they so bad that they don't know of them? They can correct for toe and camber, I've used them on a mkI and III.

Fri Mar 31, 2017 2:36 pm

ps2375 wrote: Shims can be installed at rear stub axle/beam mounting to correct alignment, did they not give you that option or are they so bad that they don't know of them? They can correct for toe and camber, I've used them on a mkI and III.

I did get some info from post about it on Youtube. Does this look like I am on the right track?

This might help: https://www.urotuning.com/Rear-EZ-Camber-Toe-Shims-Mk1-Mk2-Mk3-p/75200.htm

http://clubgti.com/showthread.php?257949-HOW-TO-Fi...-stub-axle

Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:07 pm

Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:13 pm

If the measurements are that close, then the rear isn't causing your tracking issue. Make sure that the tires are properly inflated & that they're also the same size/manufacturer/model (even if these are all the same, a tire that has more wear than its axle mate (eg. a tire that has 10,000 fewer miles or just one was rotated from the rear.) will cause a pull). If this is all correct, try swapping the front tires side to side to see if the pull follows the tire, already existing abnormal tire wear can cause a directional pull even though the alignment has been corrected.

Be prepared for the alignment guy to charge you 2-3 hours per side to install those shims & get them adjusted properly. There's also the probability that the rear hub will need to be replaced because the inner bearing race separated when they tried to remove the hub.

Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:22 pm

According to this Co. the plastic ones may deform, or compress?
Maybe I would be money ahead going with these?

http://www.lellaautosport.com/alignment-shim.html

Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:28 pm

You can do the same thing by cutting & stacking strips from an aluminum can.

Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:44 pm

I could try swapping the tires around, but with it being on the rack, the guy said it had toe in, but was still in specs.

I'm no shim expert, but I would assume a person would put some strips vertically along towards the front edge of where that stub axle mounts to, to force the front of the tire outward a bit?

I wonder about how much I would have to go since it was only a tenth within specs, but still going to the right.
I would imagine it would be in small increments?

Also seen this type, but again, I'm not sure how much I need to go?

https://www.ingallseng.com/31520-vw-rear-toe-shims.html

Fri Mar 31, 2017 7:59 pm

partwerks wrote:
I'm no shim expert, but I would assume a person would put some strips vertically along towards the front edge of where that stub axle mounts to, to force the front of the tire outward a bit?

Correct.

However, again, this small amount out (& still within factory specs) in the rear of the car isn't going to cause the front to pull.

Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:02 pm

The nice thing about these style of shim, is that if you have the printout of the alignment, the shim is cut to make the amount of adjustment you want, instead of guessing with strips of aluminum can.

Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:05 pm

TDCTDI wrote: partwerks wrote:
I'm no shim expert, but I would assume a person would put some strips vertically along towards the front edge of where that stub axle mounts to, to force the front of the tire outward a bit?

Correct.

However, again, this small amount out (& still within factory specs) in the rear of the car isn't going to cause the front to pull.

I'll try changing the tires around tomorrow. Would be nice if that was the answer to the problem........
I suppose start with the front tires?

I did have two different people, from two alignments tell me that it is toed in a bit on the back. Reason for two was that inbetween, my rack and pinion decided to take a dump after the first alignment was done.

Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:18 pm

Just the fronts. Make sure that they are the same brand, model, size, tread depth, air pressure, & even speed rating (sidewall stiffness & rubber compound will make a difference.)

I've seen people chasing their ass to adjust out a pull when one tire was a 60 aspect ratio while the other was a 55.

Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:53 pm

TDCTDI wrote: Just the fronts. Make sure that they are the same brand, model, size, tread depth, air pressure, & even speed rating (sidewall stiffness & rubber compound will make a difference.)

I've seen people chasing their ass to adjust out a pull when one tire was a 60 aspect ratio while the other was a 55.

All four are the same. Only thing I didn't check at this point was the air pressure and depth, but all looked the same visually.
I'll swap them to see what happens.

Sat Apr 01, 2017 8:29 am

There are only a few professionals in the automotive field that are worth a damn. The person that did you alignment is not one of them.

Toe will not cause pulling. It can cause a tire wear issue and certainly can cause a tracking issue. I'm certain we all seen those vehicles driving down the freeway almost sideways. http://www.souzastireservice.com/tires-101/vehicle-pull.aspx

As for the plastic shims deforming, hogwash. They are just trying to sell their wares by bad mouthing the competition. They should stick to what theirs does and justify why you would spend that much for a couple slices of aluminum.

As for beer cans, really? Unless you got your own alignment machine, how would you know where to place them to get the right measurement. It certainly would be a hit/miss. I've done that, but I had access to a machine. When I got done, I bet it was the only VW that tracked straight. It took several hours to make that happen.

The plastic shims is a great idea. Follow the instructions, install them, and recheck. In a perfect world, it would only take two alignments to make it right. One to check and one to recheck.

So if you're pulling. Make certain the left and right tires are the same sizes. Front and rear are not as big of a deal, but we are talking about similar sizes [not skate board size in the front and monster mudders in the rear]. Many vehicles have staggered sizes on today's vehicles.

I would swap the left and right front tires first. It's fast and easy. If the pulling changes, then you know what to do [tires or wheels]. If the pulling is the same, I would concentrate on the front suspension. Changes in the suspension should be consistent on both sides. If one is changing more than the other, pulling can occur. So bushings, ball joints, tire pressures, etc should all be in tip top shape. Ride height is also important but a good alignment person will check that before they start [again, most alignment techs are not worth a damn].

One last thing, in my area of the woods, the roads are crowned severely to keep all the rain off of them. So, when you are in the slow lane, the car pulls right, when you're in the fast line, it pulls left. There is little you can do to fix that. It's the nature of the beast.

Sorry to be so bold about correcting the misinformation on this tread.

Sat Apr 01, 2017 2:22 pm

I swapped the tires around, and took it out for a drive, and it seems to have corrected the problem to where it don't go to the right as soon as you leave off the wheel. Maybe one of the tires has a defect?

I guess it wouldn't hurt to still do the shim on the back, where technically it is still in specs, or just forget it?

Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:20 am

LITFA (leave it the f*&$ alone), unless you like pissing money away.
There again, if the car was out of alignment, it can cause a tire wear issue that will cause it to pull even after the alignment has been corrected.

Sun Apr 02, 2017 7:33 am

Butcher wrote:
Sorry to be so bold about correcting the misinformation on this tread.
What misinformation? All of what you stated was already stated. As to the soda can shims, all I said is that it could be accomplished using them & you confirmed that.

Sun Apr 02, 2017 6:35 pm

Cars with rear disc brakes really shouldn't have the rear stub axles shimmed, since the caliper mounts to the beam not the stub axle. Shimming the stub axle will cause trouble. Now if it had drum brakes in the rear, then no problem, shim away. Sounds like one of the tires was the cause of the pull, so yeah, leave it where the car is happiest.