TheSamba.com :: View topic

Fri Jun 30, 2017 10:09 pm

Ive got a pretty worn out 1600 dp and a stock 78 swing axle. I wanna run 31s in the rear. 4.12 r and p. Ive got power through all the gears but 4th is useless on everything but flat. I'd like to be able to actually use 4th and improve milage as it takes a lot of gas to get off the line.

What is the most cost effective way to help this? Besides tires as it did the same with 235s I hope 31s will help with 5th gear top end making it more usable at freeway speeds. Granny regear, motor rebuild, single port for more low end, bigger motor?

Sat Jul 01, 2017 12:26 am

Your expectations of engine versus tire size is way off. n Even a strong 1600 won't pull 31" tires worth a darn. Why are you stuck on such large tires. If you have to run tires that big, you need to do two things. Go to a lower R&P like 4:86 and go to a larger engine: 1776 minimum.

Sat Jul 01, 2017 5:19 am

4.37 ring out older swing helps mucho. close 3 and 4 next.

Sat Jul 01, 2017 7:35 am

Hi. Why not consider the bus 002 with the original 5.37 ring and pinion?
Your gallery pics indicate you have some fab skills to easily convert to the IRS.
Many have stated the bus 002 is stronger than some built type 1 trans'.
Understand that all a trans is is a torque multiplier. It does the same as the sprockets on one's 10-15 speed bike. Get yourself some simple graph paper, calculator, the formula, gear ratios, tire dia's, favorite beverage and plot out different combo's. VW engines are somewhat small in displacement and need this torque multiplier (ie: trans) to be able to function.
Hope this helps, Bill.

Sat Jul 01, 2017 10:00 am

swap in a swingaxle bus trans with reduction gear boxes. that causes other issues, but would work. or swap in a 002 or 091 bus box. needs to be converted to IRS but is the best option. or build a big engine. but that will break your stock trans, and 4th will still be unuseable as it will drop your RPM too much on the freeway. a vw needs to spin at about 3400 rpm to cruise at 75. anything less and they get pretty hot.

and the last, easiest, cheapest option that makes the most sense:

swap to 235's and freshen the motor! mine ran awesome with an 1835 engine, mild cam and 235's.

Sat Jul 01, 2017 2:42 pm

rockerarm wrote: Hi. Why not consider the bus 002 with the original 5.37 ring and pinion?
Your gallery pics indicate you have some fab skills to easily convert to the IRS.
Many have stated the bus 002 is stronger than some built type 1 trans'.
Understand that all a trans is is a torque multiplier. It does the same as the sprockets on one's 10-15 speed bike. Get yourself some simple graph paper, calculator, the formula, gear ratios, tire dia's, favorite beverage and plot out different combo's. VW engines are somewhat small in displacement and need this torque multiplier (ie: trans) to be able to function.
Hope this helps, Bill.

The 002 would work great with a stock 1600 and 31" tires. In fact when I first put my Baja together, that's what I ran, except 30" tires. I was totally blown away at what the Baja could do. My dad an I both took our Bajas to the Pismo Dunes. He was running a 2010, stock 72 trans and I believe 235 street / AT tires. I was running a fresh 1600 (stock) 002 trans and 30: AT tires. I ran circles around him that day, whether going down sand highway to hill climbing, there was no competition. However, the problem with the 002 trans is the freeway. If you plan on driving 70mph, the motor will be turning around 4K. Not good for mileage or longevity. You got some thinking to do.

Sun Jul 02, 2017 3:19 am

Poll Response: Item 4 - None of teh above.

OH, and BTW...

That is a '68 trans ... not a '78.

I've had a couple of pretty stock 1600s in my Baja with 4.12 gears same as your '68, with 30 x 9.50 tires. It looks fine and runs 70mph on the freeway. I hope you've downloaded all my pics since Photobucket is being so stupid. 1776 or 1835 is better, and even bigger is even better. But more power breaks more gearboxes.

The only place I feel a turbo in a Baja makes sense is for climbing big sand dunes, sand drags, or mud bog drags.

If your pals are telling you that you need more power, tell them to quit waving that thing around and put it away, and be careful they don't catch it in the zipper. Folks like to spend other people's money.

I've listened to Class 5 Open Baja racers whine for decades about how they "need" more power. So $20K Type 4s that make 275hp and break unloading off the trailer, and even with full tube frames, all fiberglass bodies that are all but unrecognizable as Bugs, +14 beams and +4 front arms and +10" wheelbase, and 7x12 rear arms and $25K gearboxes and Ecotecs that make 250hp on the $10K computer... And an AGS 5-1600 Bug with the full stock pan and steel body, 85hp and drum brakes and stock size front arms and beam and 0 x 1 rear arms and a $4k gearbox wins a MORE 5-Open Championship. Then another enters both classes and wins 5-16 and takes 2nd 5 Open and closing on the win.

It's a Baja Bug. Leave it a Baja and have all the fun the law allows.

Sun Jul 02, 2017 9:01 am

THIS ^^^^

Sun Jul 02, 2017 11:33 pm

dustymojave wrote: Poll Response: Item 4 - None of teh above.

OH, and BTW...

That is a '68 trans ... not a '78.

I've had a couple of pretty stock 1600s in my Baja with 4.12 gears same as your '68, with 30 x 9.50 tires. It looks fine and runs 70mph on the freeway. I hope you've downloaded all my pics since Photobucket is being so stupid. 1776 or 1835 is better, and even bigger is even better. But more power breaks more gearboxes.

The only place I feel a turbo in a Baja makes sense is for climbing big sand dunes, sand drags, or mud bog drags.

If your pals are telling you that you need more power, tell them to quit waving that thing around and put it away, and be careful they don't catch it in the zipper. Folks like to spend other people's money.

I've listened to Class 5 Open Baja racers whine for decades about how they "need" more power. So $20K Type 4s that make 275hp and break unloading off the trailer, and even with full tube frames, all fiberglass bodies that are all but unrecognizable as Bugs, +14 beams and +4 front arms and +10" wheelbase, and 7x12 rear arms and $25K gearboxes and Ecotecs that make 250hp on the $10K computer... And an AGS 5-1600 Bug with the full stock pan and steel body, 85hp and drum brakes and stock size front arms and beam and 0 x 1 rear arms and a $4k gearbox wins a MORE 5-Open Championship. Then another enters both classes and wins 5-16 and takes 2nd 5 Open and closing on the win.

It's a Baja Bug. Leave it a Baja and have all the fun the law allows.

yes i meant 68 that was a mistype oops.
i do feel like my motor is quite worn out i have absolutely no want for high hp i want like 100 max.
i think a close 3rd and 4th would help alot and i could use a freshen up on the tranny it likes to pop out of first.

gonna look into a regear of the tranny and maybe a new top end on the motor maybe a full rebuild i have to price some things out. my main problem is the gap between 3rd and fourth dont get me wrong a little lower ring and pinion wouldint be bad bu ti just cant make any power in 4th to do anything better than 70 on flat and its unusable on hills. maybe the close 3rd and fourth.

irs will come but not just yet.

Mon Jul 03, 2017 12:54 pm

Since money is a major factor for you, do a full rebuild on the engine first. Then you will know where you really stand. It also looks like a new trans will be needed down the road. Finding a good trans guy and custom work is very expensive. Depending on your fab skills a bus trans may be a cheaper way to go. However that is AFTER the engine is at it's best.

Tue Jul 04, 2017 9:45 pm

People may get sick of my 2 cents. Bit I had just as much into building a 1776 as I do swapping in a 2.2 Subaru. If you are good with electrical and pretty mechanical it's a semi difficult swap bit doable. I have been using. It's an option just not a plug and play option.

Tue Jul 04, 2017 10:30 pm

Bad_chopper wrote: People may get sick of my 2 cents. Bit I had just as much into building a 1776 as I do swapping in a 2.2 Subaru. If you are good with electrical and pretty mechanical it's a semi difficult swap bit doable. I have been using. It's an option just not a plug and play option.

ive considered it but i feel like my car will be down for a bit too long, and its a bit too much power imo

Now i think im gonna go the rebuild route. so should i do full rebuild or just a top end. how do i determine that. im thinking maybe these http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Piston-Cylinder-Set-88mm-x-69mm-Slip-In-p/vw8800t1k.htm with new maybe mid performance heads dual kadron carbs that i already have and maybe some ratio rockers. this is of couse depending on how much i have to do and that would be my ideal top end rebuild.

Wed Jul 05, 2017 6:42 am

Quote: swap to 235's and freshen the motor!

31-10.50-15s are oversized on a Bronco or Jeep CJ. you are taking two steps up.

Wed Jul 05, 2017 6:58 am

If it's an all original 1600, its probably due for a full rebuild. If you do an upper end rebuild with a turbo, that may constitute a cam change, definitely need lower compression. Down side of a turbo is you'll still have the low end torque of a 1600.

A 002 transmission will have low gearing, fairly inexpensive. Get a set of jugs and piston, rebuild or buy new heads,go with whatever carb(s) you want. Easy to do, decent power, and cheap way of gearing.

A couple ways to determine if you need a complete rebuild are. Where is it leaking from, what is your oil pressure, look into an oil analysis, end play in crank. And other reason would be put a good low end torque cam in.

Wed Jul 05, 2017 8:01 am

mandatory link to a must read page: http://www.aircooled.net/vw-performance-engines/

Wed Jul 05, 2017 9:32 am

Mal evolent wrote: mandatory link to a must read page: http://www.aircooled.net/vw-performance-engines/

Good read

Wed Jul 05, 2017 12:31 pm

Motor isnt original as its a 1600dp and og would be 1500 sp. It doesn't leak oil. Well a very very small amount out of One of those crappy spring pushed tubes
I don't want high hp I just want enough to get around. I think a 1600 with a little bit better heads nice carbs and a little bit a valve mods (solid shafts and ratio rockers would keep it nice and simple.
I had planned on going 002 and irs but not yet so ill do motor now and start setting up for the swap

Thu Jul 06, 2017 6:42 am

The best option in my opinion is swapping out the tranny...I have a 002 and run 33s...65mph is around 3500 rpm...first gear is a little tall to start but once you get rolling the gearing is perfect around town...the 002 is a very tough trans...just stay away from the 091, the difference between the 2 are cost! ...the 002 takes all type 1 tranny components while the 091 is all new design and parts, expensive parts! ...the 002 is basically a beefed up overbuilt type 1 tranny...I promise you that the 002 with 31in tires and a stock 1600dp will be a match made in heaven.

Good luck with your decision 8)

Thu Jul 06, 2017 9:42 am

An 002 plan was in the works anyways I'm a bit worried about freeway cruising with 31s on it. A friend said he's give me one but third is blown so for now ill do motor and start collecting irs parts.

Thu Jul 06, 2017 10:49 am

I was looking at some of you pictures and your cage look good, How big is the exhaust on your motor? If its bigger then 1 3/8" on a stock 1600 its probably hurting your bottom end some.

Casey