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Zundfolge1432 Thu Jul 06, 2017 9:47 am

The chinese owned firm announced today that electricity will power every new Volvo beginning in 2019 making it the first major car manufacturer to leave traditional internal combustion engines behind. Some experts question how soon American consumers will adapt to the idea. Speaking only for myself I've owned hybrid cars for several years now and we like them having had zero problems. Ready or not and like it or not it's coming, get ready :D

hazetguy Thu Jul 06, 2017 11:11 am

from the NYT article:

Volvo Cars on Wednesday became the first mainstream automaker to sound the death knell of the internal combustion engine, saying that all the models it introduces starting in 2019 will be either hybrids or powered solely by batteries.

Volvo’s transition will be gradual. It plans to still produce existing models with conventional engines after 2019, but it will no longer introduce new models with the older technology.

Hybrids still require gasoline or diesel fuel, but they are typically more efficient because the batteries share the load.

Zundfolge1432 Thu Jul 06, 2017 11:32 am

hazetguy wrote: from the NYT article:

Volvo Cars on Wednesday became the first mainstream automaker to sound the death knell of the internal combustion engine, saying that all the models it introduces starting in 2019 will be either hybrids or powered solely by batteries.

Volvo’s transition will be gradual. It plans to still produce existing models with conventional engines after 2019, but it will no longer introduce new models with the older technology.

Hybrids still require gasoline or diesel fuel, but they are typically more efficient because the batteries share the load.



Volvos announcement comes as major players in the auto industry are moving toward electric and hybrid technology. Last year VW announced plans to release 30? New electric vehicles by 2025. BMW recently said it hoped to boost the share of electric and hybrids to as much as 25 percent of sales by 2025. Tesla's model 3 a 35k entry level electric car will be delivered at the end of the month. :D

calvinater Thu Jul 06, 2017 11:37 am

So when i am on a trip and need to refuel (recharge). How many coffes do i have to drink before my batteries charge. ? I E how long to recharge ?

Zundfolge1432 Thu Jul 06, 2017 11:53 am

calvinater wrote: So when i am on a trip and need to refuel (recharge). How many coffes do i have to drink before my batteries charge. ? I E how long to recharge ?

Ev1 used 2 different types of battery one developed by GM the other purchased from an inventor. The second and better technology with further range was bought by ( wait for it ). You guessed it, oil company and shelved. 😂

wcfvw69 Thu Jul 06, 2017 1:27 pm

I love the idea of electric vehicles for daily driving and road trips! Living in Arizona, you'd only need some solar panels w/enough umph to charge the car. Despite the upfront costs of buying the electric car and cost of the solar panels and associated wiring, It would be nice to drive by the gas stations and smile while not supporting the oil industries and countries that hate America.

The only downside is still having to buy gas for our classic VW's. I would never do a electric conversion unless the politicians ban our gas burning engines which won't happen in my lifetime.

skills@eurocarsplus Thu Jul 06, 2017 2:29 pm

I was talking with my local Volvo dealer about this.

Volvo sales are on a downward slide...have been for a few years now. we have decided that this will be Volvos death nail.

the 2 hybrid XC90's they sold got bough back by VCNA because they were just epic turds. personally, I am not going to want to stop for 45 mins for a recharge on a trip. furthermore....Volvo's are far too expensive now, I don't know how they will stay in any price point that the average person can afford

"eversince I bought this electric car, my utility bill tripled"

china (Volvo's owners) have a huge reserve of lithium...gee wonder why they are pushing it..

also, solar is pretty destructive. lot's of "solar waste" that hasn't been able to be contained

http://www.environmentalprogress.org/big-news/2017/6/21/are-we-headed-for-a-solar-waste-crisis

snagged from the internet:

A Tesla battery has 8 years of typical gasoline passenger vehicle CO2 emissions baked in from manufacturing before the car ever hits the road, and its aluminum body is five times more energy intensive to make than a steel car. Economics clearly favor virgin production over recycling for batteries and solar panels, so all the optimistic environmental impact modeling assuming 100% recycling is disingenuous fairy dust.

so...once again....how "green" is going green? not very from what I have read....

TDCTDI Thu Jul 06, 2017 2:47 pm

Let us not forget how a majority of the electricity is generated.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_power_in_the_United_States

I guess this falls into the "other" category.
https://www.google.com/amp/www.cbsnews.com/amp/new...d-fetuses/

vwracerdave Thu Jul 06, 2017 7:03 pm

Note to self: Sell all Volvo stock before 2019.

heimlich Thu Jul 06, 2017 8:08 pm

I knew Ford was selling it to China but I thought that deal never went though. I never paid attention to it after that. It was a losing investment for Ford.

As recall their announcement a few days ago they aren't abandoning gas entirely. They just aren't making a car that is entirely gas. They are all hybrid or electric. That's a far cry from all electric. In our lifetimes we may never see gas abandoned entirely. Most electricity is made from fossil fuels (coal gas). Thus there is no zero emissions vehicles either.

raygreenwood Thu Jul 06, 2017 9:47 pm

As hazetguy noted....and I read the articles and heard the NPR piece as well......Volvo will continue to manufacture gasoline, diesel and hybrid cars.......in existing models.....until those models die out......meaning it could be 6-8 years or more until a model is no longer selling enough or viable enough to keep upgrading.

All NEW model introductions will be electric as of 2019. I agree.....it will kill the company in the long run.
Hybrids have some advantages but not in every envrionment. They have their own ills. And....all of them are weight sensitive, drag sensitive and tire design sensitive. Each kf tjose issues takes a lot of efficiency away.

Its hilarious.....take a prius....slap on a bike rack, put four people in it and drive with the windows down.....and its mileage drops to marginally higher than my 2012 Golf.

A full on electric....at this point in time....regardless of cost.....would be useless to me. I make bi-monthly drives where I need to be 600 miles away without 4-6 hour stops for charging. Same day to see clients. A Tesla....or similar....without a quick change battery module.....like a five minute plug in......is a worthless luxury car.

It will get there...but its not there yet. Also its not clear where the shiploads of neodymium for the motors and regenerative braking.....and wind turbines.....will come from to convert 30,000,000 million vehicles when not one gram is produced in the US. Ray

Zundfolge1432 Fri Jul 07, 2017 5:18 am

I wonder how many of you actually have driven a hybrid vehicle or better yet have owned one for a period of time. Have you taken one on an 8000 mile trip?Still a lot of ignorance and superstition surrounding this concept which is now well over 20 years old, that's right 20 years. Not everyone is asleep though as many companies and some govt agencies have entire fleets of them. It's human nature to resist change and be suspicious of new things, history shows the transition will happen and it will be gradual. It will be aided by the older generation dying off because the younger ones are more receptive to this technology. Rather than resist change I bought a hybrid several years ago, it was a hertz rental from San Francisco and had over 200 k miles on the clock. It now has over 300 k and is still in daily use. Parts if needed are now available on the used market cheap. Some of the upscale hybrids are cranking out over 300 horsepower, its not all miserable. Don't let fear keep you locked into yesterday's ideas.

ROCKOROD71 Fri Jul 07, 2017 5:38 am

like Skills sez, lots of folks don't take into account the strip-mining of mountains required to source the materials to make new cars, gas OR electric. Factor in that the electricity is generated by fossil fuels and the "green-ness" starts to boil away pretty quickly. Its obviously better than idling in traffic with a gas engine. most benefit will be seen in cities, where it will cut smog and most trips are short enough where you get home or get to work and plug in to top off the battery. I would for sure drive one around Boston. 60-70% of your drive time is waiting.
I tend to think that I am being green by driving an almost 50 year old economy car. The iron was dug out of the earth a long time ago, and I am not creating demand for more while I keep it on the road.
I think car manufacturers will have to become part manufacturers and turn to RE-manufacturing cars, I.E. restoring the older ones they made by the millions to keep gas-powered cars going. It probably won't happen since it is likely not economically viable but just driving around I notice there is likely 3 cars for every person able to drive out there, whether on a dealer lot, driveway, or a junkyard. I don't see how they keep going producing brand new cars at the clip they do when the things lose 20% value the second you drive off the lot, and afterwards you are hounded with re-calls.
In New England its obvious as the salt just eats them away to dust, necessitating a new one.....
Anywho...it's an interesting news nugget. Skills, I guess you gotta go subi-conversion full time eventually! :lol:

Gary Fri Jul 07, 2017 5:56 am

Zundfolge1432 wrote: calvinater wrote: So when i am on a trip and need to refuel (recharge). How many coffes do i have to drink before my batteries charge. ? I E how long to recharge ?

A curious thing but the EV1 from GM had a range of over 400 miles and that was back in 1994? You can now drive coast to coast along major highways have the chargers in place already. Same with NG it's here.

If the EV1 had a range of 400 miles back in 1996, with NiMH batteries, then GM never would have killed it.

The Complete History of GM's EV1

Quote: Additional limitations included it size and competing technologies shortened the EV1’s lifespan.

Clearly a two-seater car is impractical for families, and with its hotly contested charge range (estimates range from 50-100 miles), this car was intended for commuting short distances. This car was in no way roadtrip-ready.

Of course, no one said it had to be. But competitors, like Tesla, boasted an all-electric car with a battery capable of going 265 miles before recharging. Tesla backed up this brag with a sticker price galaxies higher than the EV1. But, the point here is that the technology in the EV1 was lacking, overall.

TDCTDI wrote: Let us not forget how a majority of the electricity is generated.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_power_in_the_United_States

I guess this falls into the "other" category.
https://www.google.com/amp/www.cbsnews.com/amp/new...d-fetuses/

What’s Driving the Decline of Coal in the United States

Face it. The world is changing no matter how much you nay-sayers want to bitterly cling to obsolete technologies and keep repeating myth and misinformation.

TDCTDI Fri Jul 07, 2017 6:40 am

Gary, from the article that you supplied...
"The drop in coal use is due largely to the natural gas boom."

While cleaner than coal, it's still fossil fuel & was once just a cast off byproduct of oil extraction that is now being used. When coal & natural gas are added together, that still means that over 65% of the power grid is supplied by fossil fuels with "green" technology only providing 13%.

Until solar, wind, hydro, & other forms of renewable energy have replaced fossil fuels as means of generating electricity, you're still relying on fossil fuels. It is you, & all the other electric car drivers that refuse to believe where that electricity is generated from, that keeps repeating the myth & misinformation.

ZF, you're driving a hybrid, it still uses fossil fuels. In fact, it probably uses more percentage wise, per mile, when you add in the amount of fossil fuels used to generate the electricity to charge your hybrid as opposed to just the same displacement engine not carrying the additional weight of the hybrid system.

Zundfolge1432 Fri Jul 07, 2017 7:23 am

TDCTDI wrote: ZF, you're driving a hybrid, it still uses fossil fuels. In fact, it probably uses more percentage wise, per mile, when you add in the amount of fossil fuels used to generate the electricity to charge your hybrid as opposed to just the same displacement engine not carrying the additional weight of the hybrid system.
Neither of our hybrids are plug in. The Prius averages about 48 mpg, but I've gotten as much as 60 and I drive it hard. The big battery is charged when coasting,braking etc. engine stops starts all on its own and we've managed to rack up 52k miles on this one already. Has an 1800 cc gas engine. If and when big battery goes south look on eBay or LKQ salvage they are 500 bucks with a guarantee. The other one is a big Lexus 400h running a V6 cranking out close to 300 horses and I drive it hard too, gas mileage on that is just 26mpg but that's carrying 4 people their luggage going 80 with A/C on, yes it's a lardass luxury barge with all the accessories. It's a bit older 2008 and 123k miles. If you have to cover long distances at high speeds it ain't a bad way to go. The newer ones provide even better figures but I'm not handing over 50 large to buy in. :D

TDCTDI Fri Jul 07, 2017 7:45 am

When will you be going full electric?

Zundfolge1432 Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:17 pm

TDCTDI wrote: When will you be going full electric?

If it was cheap enough, less than 15k had a range of say 50 miles, accelerated to 60 in less than 8 seconds and didn't look like a bar of soap I'd buy in now as a commuter car. :D Nissan leaf hits some but not all points.

TDCTDI Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:22 pm

:lol:

skills@eurocarsplus Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:23 pm

ROCKOROD71 wrote:
Anywho...it's an interesting news nugget. Skills, I guess you gotta go subi-conversion full time eventually! :lol:

dude...I want out of the automotive business like you can't even imagine. in doing this bullshit for over 30 years now I have seen it all, and it's just getting worse. from dealers giving you "free" this and that to manufactures pretty much saying "drive it, there is no maintenance" it has become harder and harder to sell service to the general public

the generation that took "pride in ownership" and maintained everything to the 9's is dying off....and being replaced by whiny millennial douche bags that always come back with "i'll do it myself" or "I saw on a forum...."

it's getting old. actually it GOT old for me 10 years ago. and, to your point, add in the rust issues here in the northeast, people just don't want to pay for it. I had a '11 Subaru in that the backing plates were rotted off....customer declined repairs. problem is, the parking brake shoes were ready to explode and lock up the rear wheels.

anyway, as long as I can buy gas, I will. in my lifetime I will have zero use for hybrid/electric cars. I have worked on enough of them to be underwhelmed by the false economy they provide. and just because some people haven't had issues with theirs doesn't mean they don't exist...and consider yourself lucky, as it's not the norm...



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