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Mon Jul 10, 2017 4:27 am

Hello,

I was wondering if someone ever tried to weld the original stamping of the engine case to re-stamp your own numbers ?

I made a search on the forum and found that some people managed to weld engine cases for Performance purpose, so i guess it is doable, but nothing about filling the original numbers.

I am sure someone already tried this right ? I'd like to have feedback on the process. :)
I'd like to do it on a 52 25hp.

Thanks for your comment,
Florian

Mon Jul 10, 2017 4:32 am

That would be illegal almost everywhere except for the original manufacturer.

Mon Jul 10, 2017 4:54 am

Yes of course. So ok... let's ask another question ;-)

Just supposition, imagine the manufacturer would like to do it with that process.... do you think it would works fine ? ;)
Does someone know a manufacturer who already tried ? ;)

Mon Jul 10, 2017 6:43 am

I've seen it filed flat and re stamped many times. Easy enough to clean up a junk case and test welding it. Maybe make a piece of filler rod from the fins on the bottom.

Mon Jul 10, 2017 1:20 pm

Lazaa wrote: Yes of course. So ok... let's ask another question ;-)

Just supposition, imagine the manufacturer would like to do it with that process.... do you think it would works fine ? ;)
Does someone know a manufacturer who already tried ? ;)
Regardless, whatever type of hypothetical spin you put on it, bottom line it is unethical. If you want a numbers matching split, go find one. But be careful and do your research. Because intentionally or unintentionally folks have been known to mess with the numbers, and someone gets screwed in the end (pun intended).

Mon Jul 10, 2017 2:32 pm

When VW renumbers cases as part of their exchange program they often milled off the old number and restamped them. It is obvious what was done, and includes the exchange logo.

If you are talking about trying to make a newly stamped number appear original, well, that's just not right.

I have a new case in my car, so it has no engine number. When I get a chance, I plan to have it stamped in the proper location, using my original engine case number, but with an "X" after it denoting "exchange." Obviously, it will lack the VW logo in the stamping.

It's nothing official, but it is honest, obvious, and will trace to the original number entered in my Owners Manual, should any agency want to see them tied together. The latter is very unlikely, which is why I'm not in a screaming hurry to have it done.

Mon Jul 10, 2017 3:24 pm

KTPhil wrote: ..........but with an "X" after it denoting "exchange." Obviously, it will lack the VW logo in the stamping.

I like that idea........did VW ever stamp the letter "X" for this purpose?

What about older exchange cases clearly stamped "AUSTAUSCH" (or equivalent) as part of the factory remanufacturing program, would they be candidates for re-stamping, as per Lazaa's first post?

Some of these cases are obvious replacements anyhow, basically 36hp castings, but machined with smaller 25hp cylinder openings.

Mon Jul 10, 2017 4:21 pm

Factory remanufactured/exchange engines were restamped, but not by filling in the original stamping. It was either machined flat and stamped in the original location, or it was stamped nearby, I think with X's over the original.

There have been several threads about exchange engines that may give you better answers.

Mon Jul 10, 2017 6:15 pm

KTPhil wrote: I have a new case in my car, so it has no engine number. When I get a chance, I plan to have it stamped in the proper location, using my original engine case number, but with an "X" after it denoting "exchange." Obviously, it will lack the VW logo in the stamping.

I have a blank engine # 36hp case and if I ever build it up, I'm going to leave it blank.
I think the blank cases are cool though.

My '63 has a rebuilt H-case 1500cc in it, dealer rebuild that they never stamped a number on:

This is not a 36hp but is a good example of how the original number was milled off.

Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:50 am

Interesting milling pattern, it is deeper than I would have expected!

For me, the bottom line is that there cannot be any deceit involved in engine marking and identification. A new owner decades from now should be able to correctly interpret and trust the markings.

Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:08 am

Zwitterkafer wrote: KTPhil wrote: ..........but with an "X" after it denoting "exchange." Obviously, it will lack the VW logo in the stamping.

I like that idea........did VW ever stamp the letter "X" for this purpose?

Yes, VW used the "X".
(images from other threads about engine numbers):

Like these:

Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:14 am

Thanks very much for posting that, KTPhil!!

Wed Jul 12, 2017 2:40 am

Somebody pointed out earlier, that the milling process when removing the engine number, was deeper than they had expected. The reason for this is because when the metal is stamped, the metal under the surface is also deformed for a reasonable distance inwards, and from memory, the resulting effect is known as forming a 'Notch Density'.

Police and other agencies used to use a disclosing fluid, which when placed on the metal, would show through the original number. Oddly, many years ago, I filed off the original number of a 25/30hp engine, leaving it so that it was blank, and found that with use, the dust off the fan belt accumulated on the resultant surface, in a manner, so as to clearly reveal the original number still 'hidden' underneath the surface.

Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:40 am

I would agree with Martin re the milling and ability of certain agencies to disclose stampings that have been obliterated.

I have also seen engines with the original location milled out and a new number inserted but also displaying another (the original?) on the face towards number 2 cylinder. I've no idea if this was factory practice at any time but I have seen more than one like this.

Sun Jul 23, 2017 3:30 am

Lazaa wrote: Hello,

I was wondering if someone ever tried to weld the original stamping of the engine case to re-stamp your own numbers ?

I would imagine that any attempt to weld a magnesium case would result in a spectacular bonfire

Sun Jul 23, 2017 4:41 am

amazeer wrote: Lazaa wrote: Hello,

I was wondering if someone ever tried to weld the original stamping of the engine case to re-stamp your own numbers ?

I would imagine that any attempt to weld a magnesium case would result in a spectacular bonfire

There are plenty of people who can successfully weld magnesium and electron alloy

Sun Jul 23, 2017 9:49 am

yes, welding an aluminum/magnesium case is not a problem whatsoever

as far as re-stamping a case... the only motive someone would have, that I can come up with, would be to fake an original engine. Now, original engines on early cars such as split beetles are not all that common, and are considered by many to be quite special. My split has its original 25hp engine and to me that is one of the high points of the car, and greatly contributed to my decision to get the car. Fake engine stamping's diminish this

Sun Jul 23, 2017 10:00 am

if i had my destroyed original engine, or i knew that my original engine did not exist anymore, i would consider building an new one, and stamp the case exchange with my original number. That way it is obvious that i am not faking an original engine, but i do know the original engine number.

I believe i have read of this being done in places where the registration was tied to the engine number.