TheSamba.com :: View topic - Blinkers not blinking, relay not in Bentley?

Mon Aug 28, 2017 9:52 pm

So, I recall this same issue with the Syncro and I got a NAPA electronic relay that worked fine. Even found my thread of 5 years ago.

Symptom: left blinker works fine. One day activating the right blinker caused an odd sound and the relay stopped clicking after a few clicks. It's progressed quickly over a month to zero blinks on the right only. All bulbs and their contacts are clean as are grounds.

I sprayed contact cleaner into the steering column switch to no avail. Identified the relay on the fuse panel as #72 by feeling which was active. Next to it is #21 which is active with the 4-way flashers on.

My issue is this. On my 87 Syncro it was relay labeled #21 that ran the blinkers under my dash. On my 87 2WD, the relay under my dash running the blinkers is labeled 72. The relay on my dash running the 4-way flashers is #21.

These relays are different in that 21 has only 3 prongs where 72 has 4. Could someone tell me which relay is proper for my blinkers as that's what I will buy. The Bentley shows an emergency flasher relay but does not show a blinker relay. Thanks.

Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:36 pm

I'm sure you've seen this already so my question is how you have two relays exhibiting activation when the Bentley shows only one?

In the Bentley for the 87 Digifant, pg. 97.102 shows it to be the relay position #12 in the right lower corner.

On pg. 97.113, It shows the turn signal switch connecting to the Emergency Flasher Switch through Terminals 49a, "R" and "L".

On the top of page above tracks 113-115 shows the Emergency Flasher
relay connected with the Terminals:
1/49
4/31
3/49a
2 (from A11)
Note that Terminal 2 from A11 is not active since nothing is shown going to pin A11 on the blue "A" plug. perhaps someone else has other information on this A11 connection.

So according to Bentley it is a single 4 pronged relay. There was no separate relay for the Turn Signals, just the Emergency Flasher Relay.

I was just looking at my fuse Relay panel last night but cannot remember the position of the relay numbers 21 or 72, I'll look tomorrow again, but it's the 86 or 90 fuse panel. Between the 3 yrs, the relay positions are the same in Bentley.

Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:50 pm

Bentley page 97.102. I think your 21 is in position 12, and your 72 is in position 11. Correct?
Those position numbers are repeated in the diagrams on the following pages.
The relay in position 11 is on page 97.118 - it's the rear wiper relay.
Relay in position 12 is on page 97.113 and does both regular and 4-way flashers duty.

Mon Aug 28, 2017 11:16 pm

There is also in the Bentley Page 97.131 "Main wiring Diagram - Emergency Flashers, turn signals."
Basically showing the same diagram as the other on 97.113.

Tue Aug 29, 2017 4:26 am

Or you could purchase an old fashioned 2 prong flasher relay and use that. Very simple design to accomplish what an expensive over engineered VW relay does. When I get into the shop I can check the wire pinout but, you can test your turnsignals with out the relay installed. They won't flash, but they will stay on so you can verify that they are working properly.

From memory you jump 49 and 49a. mark

Tue Aug 29, 2017 6:21 am

Here is my flasher location on my 86. (Some may label me as anal.....) it operates both the 4 way and turn signals.

It is a simple three prong unit.....

Dave

Tue Aug 29, 2017 7:09 am

Just FYI for anyone curious what all those other relay positions are for as shown in the Bentley. I was!

Loc. Relay function (Control No.) Relay Part Number
1 Not used – –
2 Not used – –
3 Control unit for low coolant warning (43), 191 919 376 A
4 Retardation relay (jx & ky) 251 919 082
5 Contact close relay for fan for vans with air con (53), 321 919 505 A
5 Electric fan 141 951 253 B
6 Twin tone horn (53), 141 951 253 B
7 Fog lamp (53), 141 951 253 B
8 Relief relay x contact (100), 191 937 503
9 Not used – –
10 Not used – –
11 Control unit for rear window wash wipe 191 955 529
12 Indicator/hazard light control unit 191 953 277 A
12 Indicator/hazard light control unit (with towbar) 431 953 231
12 Indicator/hazard light control unit (w/ roof turn signal) 211 953 231 K
13 Headlamp washer 701 955 200
14 Rotating emergency light 281 941 587
15 Fuse for instrument illumination
16 Fuse for rear fog lamp
17 Not used – –
18 Control unit for heated seat 443 919 533
18 Buzzer (ambulance) 3A0 951 307
19 Florescent tube 441 941 583 C
20 Aux. fuse location
21
22
23 Aux. fuse location
24 Electric windows 431 951 253 H
25 Indicators/emer. lights for headlights (ambulance) 111 953 227 D
25 Cruise control 321 963 141 A
26 Thermo cut out for electric windows 443 937 105

Note: Positions 15, 16, 20, 23 and 26 are one of the fuses you see attached along the top of the Fuse Panel. (You can see the figure of these in the Bentley look different from the figure of a relay.)

Fuse No. Component(s). Rating.
1 Radiator fan. 30 Amp
2 Brake lights. 10 Amp
3 Reading lamps, interior lamps, vanity mirror, clock, fag lighter, radio. 15 Amp
4 Hazard light system. 15 Amp
5 Spare. – – – – – – – –
6 Fog lamps. 15 Amp
7 LH side lights/ tail lights. 10 Amp
8 RH side lights/ tail lights. 10 Amp
9 RH headlamp main beam. 10 Amp
10 LH headlamp main beam. 10 Amp
11 Windscreen wipers and washers switch. 15 Amp
12 2nd heater, electric windows, cruise, electric mirror, A/C, rear wiper 20 Amp
13 Fresh air blower. 20 Amp
14 Heated rear window, heated mirrors, light switch light. 20 Amp
15 Reverse lights. 10 Amp
16 Horn(s) 15 Amp
17 Windscreen wiper motor. 10 Amp
18 Brake warning lamp, heated seats, cruise control, belt warning system. 10 Amp
19 Indicators. 10 Amp
20 Number plate lights, headlamp washers. 10 Amp
21 LH dipped beam. 10 Amp
22 RH dipped beam. 10 Amp

Tue Aug 29, 2017 10:22 am

Dave, thank you, for those that come across this post to isolate the flasher relay as a problem with the turn signals, remove the relay and jump pin 49 and 49a. Work the left signal, lights must illuminate. Work right signal, lights must illuminate. It is that simple. If they do, flasher is bad, if they don't you have another problem especially if one side lights and one side does not.

Could not be any simpler. These use a metallic strip that heats, opens, cools and closes. Substitute it for the jumper wire between 49 and 49a. I can't believe I remembered that correctly.

Wed Aug 30, 2017 9:10 am

The turn and emergency flashers are one in the same. It is located in the CE panel #12 position, bottom right side. The better description is on Bentley p. 97.102 and is a three pin relay for most of the world including the USA.
Hope this helps.