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Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:44 pm

mondshine wrote: I have two sets of valve covers for my Thing so I can have a set clean and ready to go on when I adjust the valves.
I made a plywood form to position the gaskets while they are glued to the valve covers with Gasgacinch.

In the last photo, you can see the two valve covers lightly clamped in a vise ready for the next morning.

If you spread a lite layer of gasgacinch on both mating surfaces (valve cover and one side of the gasket), then allow it to get tacky (almost dry looking) you can lay the gasket in carefully and the gasgacinch will hold it tightly in place. Pop it on the cylinder head and pull the bail into place. Good to go!

Been putting valve covers on like this for 3 decades with no problems. Not even the cheap ones have given me issues!

Probably just ginks myself!!!

You are a good woodworker too! I can see the skill level on the plywood forms! I grew up in a custom cabinet shop. Started running the router at the early age of 7. I have owned three cabinet shops, making great money during each sale! Anyhow, enjoyed seeing another woodworker utilizing their talents to offset issues in other trades!

Sat Sep 16, 2017 12:00 pm

mondshine, I like seeing careful and through work like that! Nice job with the forms and painted covers.

Since there's no "one size fits all" solution for leaks, I wrote this a few months ago to try to cover all the bases of all the different T1 engines out there. It assumes you're securing the gasket into the cover with shellac of some kind.

asiab3 wrote: My theory on leaks is from a physics point of view: how is the oil getting out? Between the gasket and the head is an interesting terrain. We can have the aftermarket heads with their mirror-like finished surface, the original OG heads with their slightly dirty yet smooth metal surface, and the rebuilt OG heads with clean sandblasted (yuck!) gasket surfaces. All our job is, is to make sure the gap between the surfaces of the cork and the head is smaller than a molecule of oil.

- With the aftermarket shiny heads, it's easy enough to do with a silicone gasket. Seal it into the cover, clean the oil off the head and gasket, and pop the covers on.

- With original-build OG heads, I find the machining of the surface, combined with the years of heat cycles, errant screwdrivers, gunk build up, and leftover shellac from other apes, to be a little more coarse than the newer heads, so we need something to fill the voids or valleys that could let oil out. Greasing the gasket with a THIN and EVEN coat of whatever grease you have laying around seems to be just the ticket; it fills the micro-imperfections, and the thickness/surface tension/whatever of it will not allow oil out. The grease also causes the cork gasket to swell, further sealing the gap between gasket and cylinder head.

- Sandblasted OG heads could be either, depending on the shop and cleanliness level.

There is no "one stop shop" solution that we can spout off on the internet for every type of valve cover leak, but it's nice to put all the options on the table when the topic comes up.

One of my valve cover gaskets is celebrating its 35,000 mile anniversary this week. :P
Robbie

Sat Sep 16, 2017 5:14 pm

Zundfolge1432 wrote: Seems like a problem that has been around a while, is it gasket or cover causing this? If force is equal all around seal how can it ride up?

yeah since before ww2
It has been common procedure to glue gaskets to valve covers since before my father was born! Since flatheads. yes flatheads do have valve covers :D

Permatex #1 was probably what was used back then, but I'm not really sure.
In the 80s/90's gorilla snot was popular.
You know what gorilla snot is? That's today's trivia question :wink:

I did notice permatex 2/3/300/aviation is no longer sold in some FLAPS
It might be because it isn't resistant to alky, OR because the people that bought it are phasing out. Maybe both.

There will always be cork, and there will always be "permatex"! Although I'm not sure which if their over 50 products is most suited. I just saw "super ultra silicone" on the shelf.....??? , what is... up to with that? :lol:
use flowchart:
http://441py33rout1ptjxn2lupv31-wpengine.netdna-ss...lector.pdf

Sat Sep 16, 2017 6:46 pm

3M weatherstrip adhesive.

Sat Sep 16, 2017 6:49 pm

A super thin film of Hondabond works great too.

Sat Sep 16, 2017 9:03 pm

Zundfolge1432 wrote: 3M weatherstrip adhesive.
Bingo!

That gonzo flowchart seems to indicate the "high tack" would be best, and probably true, but most any kind of curing sealer should be good enough.

Sun Sep 17, 2017 10:47 am

busman78 wrote: That valve cover gasket looks to be an example of a crankcase desperate for air, not saying your engine sucks, but your engine is sucking, your engine is creating a lot of negative crankcase pressure, can't breath, easiest gasket to suck past is the valve cover, kind of like those engines with too much positive crankcase pressure out the valve cover or main crank seal. Not sure if sealant would help, a crankcase breather would be a better option.

All Type 4 valve covers came with tabs on the valve cover. Seem to recall that there was some T1 or T3 covers for a short period of time had the tabs.
Ok this an interesting comment. I'm curious as to how negative pressure can exist in a VW case?

We have all (well most of us older folks) experienced positive crank case pressure. I mean years ago part of regular maintenance on an American engine was to replace the PCV during tune up's. I get that. It's the condition described above that has me a bit bewildered.

Anyone have any incite?

Sun Sep 17, 2017 11:28 am

67rustavenger wrote: busman78 wrote: That valve cover gasket looks to be an example of a crankcase desperate for air, not saying your engine sucks, but your engine is sucking, your engine is creating a lot of negative crankcase pressure, can't breath, easiest gasket to suck past is the valve cover, kind of like those engines with too much positive crankcase pressure out the valve cover or main crank seal. Not sure if sealant would help, a crankcase breather would be a better option.

All Type 4 valve covers came with tabs on the valve cover. Seem to recall that there was some T1 or T3 covers for a short period of time had the tabs.
Ok this an interesting comment. I'm curious as to how negative pressure can exist in a VW case?

We have all (well most of us older folks) experienced positive crank case pressure. I mean years ago part of regular maintenance on an American engine was to replace the PCV during tune up's. I get that. It's the condition described above that has me a bit bewildered.

Anyone have any incite?

Bad rings. The rings were not properly broke in and are only sealing on the up strokes. They then intake crankcase air on the downstrokes, forcing that air into the cylinder, sucking the air out of the crankcase, causing a vacuum within the case.

Seen it several times.

Mon Sep 18, 2017 1:55 am

Any negative crankcase pressure is exaggerated greatly coasting downhill in gear. There is a high vacuum signal (low pressure) in the manifold and combustion chambers which will sick air and oil past the rings if they don't seal perfectly.

Robbie

Mon Sep 18, 2017 4:11 am

http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/914_valve_covers/914_valve_covers.htm

Mon Sep 18, 2017 8:57 am

when I used gaskets like that I just used a sharp point punch and added some divots to the cover to hold the gadgets in place. the full round inner lip is a good idea as long as it dosent just cake up crap there, it needs some drains... and or only about .060 high to hold the gadget in place good...and some drains :wink: Ive used C channel vc's for about 13 years now without any issues or leeks.

Mon Sep 18, 2017 1:01 pm

Yesterday, I saw an ad in the Samba Classifieds. The ad showed three pairs of genuine VW NOS valve cover gaskets. They looked to be 100% cork. No rubber at all.

Tim

Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:04 pm

Replaced the old cork valve cover gasket after a valve adjustment with new silicone gaskets from WW and had drips so pulled those off and replaced with new cork gaskets from WW (ordered at same time) thinking my problem was solved but now I have a "small" drip from one of the gaskets. I will try the gascacinch and grease technique and hopefully there will be a little less mess under the bug. Has anyone had good luck with the silicone gaskets or is good cork the way to go?

Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:54 pm

On my 2180 I used the cheap black rubber gaskets from Empi. I had a set of cork at hand as well, but was curious. Of course, that engine has bolt on covers, so this isn't fully valid. However... They don't leak. I was and continue to be stunned. I've done two valve adjustments (just checking, only 3k miles since I did that) and they are still holding up.

Coming from the Type IV world, I had the attitude that cork was king. But I have started to reconsider that position.

One thing I did notice on my Type IV's was the gasket surface on the stamped steel covers would flare or bend away from the head after years of use and possibly abuse. I made a small straightedge from a cheap ruler cut to fit, and found that one of my covers needed to be bent back to create a parallel gasket surface. Once I did that, the leak I was chasing went away. I suspect this is pretty rare, but worth checking...

Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:23 pm

pepsiguy78 wrote: Replaced the old cork valve cover gasket after a valve adjustment with new silicone gaskets from WW and had drips so pulled those off and replaced with new cork gaskets from WW (ordered at same time) thinking my problem was solved but now I have a "small" drip from one of the gaskets. I will try the gascacinch and grease technique and hopefully there will be a little less mess under the bug. Has anyone had good luck with the silicone gaskets or is good cork the way to go?

1. I've ONLY used/tried cork, since 1972.
2. I don't have valve cover leaks - just everywhere else !!

Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:56 pm

Cusser wrote: pepsiguy78 wrote: Replaced the old cork valve cover gasket after a valve adjustment with new silicone gaskets from WW and had drips so pulled those off and replaced with new cork gaskets from WW (ordered at same time) thinking my problem was solved but now I have a "small" drip from one of the gaskets. I will try the gascacinch and grease technique and hopefully there will be a little less mess under the bug. Has anyone had good luck with the silicone gaskets or is good cork the way to go?

1. I've ONLY used/tried cork, since 1972.
2. I don't have valve cover leaks - just everywhere else !!

Thanks for the reply, I liked the cork better as well.

Thu Mar 29, 2018 9:58 pm

Duroc, you’re onto something there. A few weeks after posting on this thread—despite the tips I put into practice—the leak reappeared on the same side of my engine. So, I thought I’d try new valve covers, as well as a new set of so-called OEM bales. But I wanted to experiment a little. This is what I did.

I ordered from EIS parts a single OEM stock valve cover with VW stamped on it. Okay, seems like a winner, right? But when I received it, I noticed that the area where the gasket sits was not particularly flat. When I placed the gasket in the area, I could see that the inner portion of the gasket would settle at an inward angle, while up against the edge of the head. Not good. I wanted the entire width of the gasket to sit flat against the valve cover, of course.

So, I ordered another single valve cover and two bales from Bughaus. When I got this valve cover, there was no VW mark, even though I was assured by Bughaus that it was OEM. However, the inner ridge of this valve cover was perfectly flat; naturally, the gasket set in it nice and flat, too. I installed the Bughaus cover, using my old bale, and the leak was gone for good. This was months ago and still no leakage.

The lesson here is that new VW-stamped stock valve covers are garbage because the sealing ridge is not flat, it’s actually beveled. As a result, the gasket surface which is then pressed against the head will only seal toward the outer edge of the gasket. The stock Bughaus valve covers are obviously made from better tooling, insuring that the sealing ridge of the valve cover is perfectly flat, so the entire width of the gasket will lay flat against the head.

The bad news was that the ends of the new bales—the ends that stick into the holes at the sides of the heads, that is—were 1/4 inch shorter than OEM. There isn’t a whole lot of the ends on the OEM bales that fit into the sides of the heads to begin with. Being half the normal end, meant that only a small amount of the ends would actually go into the holes at the sides of the heads. Since these new bales are ... well ... new and extremely tight, I was afraid that the ends would not grasp enough of the head material ... and that I might break off the outer portion of the head where the ends of the bales are inserted. Sounds paranoid, I know, but there isn’t much metal where the bale ends insert, and with the added pressure of being new, I wanted the ends to go in as far as the originals in order to take advantage of as much metal as possible.

Tim