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Thu Sep 28, 2017 10:33 am

Can someone tell me which wires go the glow plug relay.
I have the Bentley but it doesn't go to that level of detail (unless I'm missing something) Here's a pic of the socket with each connection port labeled 1 thru 9

I labeled the socket using painters tape but by the time I got all the connectors out, I couldn't read all of the labels :shock:

Any help would be much appreciated
Jim

Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:52 am

Where is the relay located? I've had my van for 16 years and never uncovered it.

Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:01 pm

In 82 diesels it is mounted in the engine compartment, visible on the firewall.
In 83 diesels it is out of sight in the engine compartment wiring box.

The Bentley diagrams don't have the socket pin numbers but they do have the relay pin numbers. Just use those.

Mark

Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:05 pm

Gizmoman wrote: Can someone tell me which wires go the glow plug relay.
I have the Bentley but it doesn't go to that level of detail (unless I'm missing something) Here's a pic of the socket with each connection port labeled 1 thru 9

:

Any help would be much appreciated
Jim

P. 97.37 in my Bentley shows relay pinout details but I see what you mean; they don't coincide with numbers in your image.

Is each pin at bottom of relay labelled?

edited out irrelevant comment.

not a great pic but an example:

Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:30 pm

This is from the Mk2 Golf/Jetta Bentley. Vanagon pinout is the same.

Thu Sep 28, 2017 2:54 pm

That's the diagram I used to wire up my relay. I still haven't got a temp sender wired in yet, but I'm assuming it's actually just a thermal switch that grounds that T-terminal when it reaches operating temps. So, without the switch the relay just cycles through its complete timed interval every time it's triggered--correct?

Thu Sep 28, 2017 5:05 pm

Zeitgeist 13 wrote: ... I still haven't got a temp sender wired in yet, but I'm assuming it's actually just a thermal switch that grounds that T-terminal when it reaches operating temps. So, without the switch the relay just cycles through its complete timed interval every time it's triggered--correct?

Makes sense to me.

When engine warm, does the glow plug light come on and stay on for same length of time as it would if engine was cold? On my old Rabbit 1.6 NA, IIRC, the glow plug light would shut off fairly quickly if engine was still warm. i.e. if engine is up to temp, switch to T is closed, whatever solid state VooDoo that happens inside the relay to keep 87/30 circuit open also turns off the glow plug light? The '82 diagram indeed shows some kind of switch between ground and T. The example diagram and legend doesn't show exactly that switch but the variable resistor icon is similar. It must be something similar to a WBX temp sensor. (NTC thermistor?)

@ the OP. I too have used that green tape to label relays. In some cases, its not too hard to see Sharpie on the black relay case.

Neil.

Thu Sep 28, 2017 8:04 pm

Thanks for all the great responses gentlemen. This should be enough info to get the few remaining wires where they belong.

Believe it or not, this all started with blinker fuse blowing periodically which has only bgun recently.

I was trying to figue out where the issue was and using a jumper to ground - key off. I was distracted and didn't get back to the job till later and forgot where I was - turn the key on - huge mistake!

Anyhoo, I'm gettingthe melted wire out ofthe loom and moving on.

Thanks again,

Jim

Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:19 am

Vanagon Nut wrote:
When engine warm, does the glow plug light come on and stay on for same length of time as it would if engine was cold? On my old Rabbit 1.6 NA, IIRC, the glow plug light would shut off fairly quickly if engine was still warm.

That's the way it's supposed to work. Mine never has -- always comes on for the same 10 seconds or so. When it's warm outside or been running, I don't wait for it to go out. The circuit does have an auto-cutoff that stop the glowplugs when you turn the key. It's on my fix list, but there always seems to be something else more pressing.

Fri Sep 29, 2017 7:32 am

Don't confuse the glow light turning off with the glow plugs turning off. The glow plugs can stay on after the light goes off.

Mark

jkallo wrote:
That's the way it's supposed to work. Mine never has -- always comes on for the same 10 seconds or so. When it's warm outside or been running, I don't wait for it to go out. The circuit does have an auto-cutoff that stop the glowplugs when you turn the key. It's on my fix list, but there always seems to be something else more pressing.

Fri Sep 29, 2017 8:15 am

...and the light can also turn on but power not go to the glow plugs. The light and glow plug power circuits are independent of each other.

Fri Sep 29, 2017 9:37 am

Andrew A. Libby wrote: ...and the light can also turn on but power not go to the glow plugs. The light and glow plug power circuits are independent of each other.

Yeah that I have experienced.

I don't remember where I originally saw this suggestion, but you can get a pretty good idea of when the glow plugs are running by observing the cabin light (next to the driver's head) and/or the fasten seatbelt buzzer. The light brightens and the buzzer changes tone when the glow plugs shut off (because of the heavy current the plugs draw).

Fri Sep 29, 2017 5:19 pm

If you have a voltmeter installed you can see when the glow plugs switch off. If you listen hard and it is quiet you can hear the relay clunk somewhere in the back.

Fri Sep 29, 2017 7:32 pm

^^ Those ^^ are some good suggestions for everyday use.

Once, when trying to observe a potentially wonky glow relay, I temporarily connected a 12v test bulb to the glow buss bar and a good ground. I dangled the light bulb from the overhead Westy cabinet where I could keep an eye on it from the rear-view mirror while I drove, until I was satisfied it was working correctly.

Sun Oct 01, 2017 3:32 pm

as a last resort, buy an 87/87a relay socket (has 5 wires), remove those wires, use them. They should fit (lock into) the VW relay block. Double check wire gauges but its likely that at "worst", some new wires will be a larger gauge than the OEM wire you'd connect them to. But do check gauge on 87/30 wires that supply power to glow plugs.

Sun Oct 01, 2017 3:37 pm

guess I should've included a quote in my reply. Not sure what happened to Gizmomans post but I was replying to his request about solutions for new terminals to the glow plug relay.

Neil.

Sun Oct 01, 2017 5:56 pm

So sorry Neil, I thought I was fast enough do delete it before anybody read it.

Right after I posted, I found the 2.5 mm connectors on Amazon for 6 bucks - 20 males and 20 females. Ill have em tomorrow.

Possibly you had some other pertinent info I missed and apologize for the delete.

Jim

Sun Oct 01, 2017 5:59 pm

^^

no no. NO problem.

If I recall, there is a specific crimp tool for those terminals but i'd think for what is a relatively "non mission critical" thing, I'm sure you'll figure a way to crimp on those terminals. Heck. You could even solder them too.

Neil.

Sun Oct 01, 2017 6:21 pm

Thanks Neil, Yes, I will be crimping and soldering and heat shrinking as well.

In the post I deleted, I mentioned that the two wires to the reverse lights had come off and were dangling between the frame and the transmission. I wonder if the exposed terminal ends touched anything it would blow the turn signal fuse. Honestly I think this may have been the issue and would appreciate anyone's thoughts.

Two of the new 2.5 mm terminals will be going there as well. What I had was a bit rube-Goldberg.

Jim

Sun Oct 01, 2017 8:07 pm

Gizmoman wrote:

In the post I deleted, I mentioned that the two wires to the reverse lights had come off and were dangling between the frame and the transmission. I wonder if the exposed terminal ends touched anything it would blow the turn signal fuse. Honestly I think this may have been the issue and would appreciate anyone's thoughts.

Two of the new 2.5 mm terminals will be going there as well. What I had was a bit rube-Goldberg.

Jim

You're welcome Jim.

The 82/83 Diesel diagrams show the back up light bulbs sharing a ground with the rear turn signal bulbs. (like duh. They're in the same housing ;) ) If the live positive wire to the reverse light switch shorted to ground, if a fuse was going to blow, it would be S12. But....

if the other back up switch positive wire shorted to ground, would it pull positive through the rear blinker bulbs to ground and blow the fuse for the blinkers ???

Caveat: I am not a wiring expert!

Neil.