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Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:26 pm

When I removed the intake manifold from my 40 hp engine, I was surprised to find there were no gaskets between the manifold flanges and the heads. The engine runs fine.

I’m putting everything back together now, and wondering if I should install these metal gaskets that were in the gasket kit, or if I should put the manifold back on without gaskets like it was.

Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:59 pm

Yes. They need to be installed

Fri Jan 05, 2018 3:23 pm

Do you mean between the heat riser connection and the muffler? Yes, those need gaskets.

In some cases you need a small-hole gasket on one side (and the side matters).

Or do you mean between the manifold and head? That uses a copper crush gasket. It may still be there, just crushed into the intake port of the head, so you missed it. You'll need to remove and replace it.

Check this link for pictures and a warning about different sizes on a 1200.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=317060

Fri Jan 05, 2018 3:31 pm

http://blog.bbt4vw.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/2132-034_blog.jpg I think this is what you need

Fri Jan 05, 2018 3:40 pm

Oops. My bad. Yes, the copper crush gaskets need to be installed where the intake goes in and the head. I misunderstood what you were asking.

Fri Jan 05, 2018 3:46 pm

Thank you all!

Whats the torque spec for the acorn nuts holding the manifold to the heads?

Fri Jan 05, 2018 4:21 pm

I dont remember the torque spec BUT look at the sealing surface on the intake to make sure there are no major dings or scuffs on it. I usually end up having to take a mill file to most of them.

When you tighten the nuts - try like hell to do them evenly. You want to try to get the manifold to seat flat against the seals and not be cocked.

Once you are done, you REALLY need to check for vacuum leaks. at least half of the 40 horse engines that come into the shop have this problem.

Fri Jan 05, 2018 6:32 pm

FL-Frank wrote: When I removed the intake manifold from my 40 hp engine, I was surprised to find there were no gaskets between the manifold flanges and the heads. The engine runs fine.

I’m putting everything back together now, and wondering if I should install these metal gaskets that were in the gasket kit, or if I should put the manifold back on without gaskets like it was.

FL-Frank, Have another look at your intake ports on your heads. Most of the time the old gasket is crushed and discolored. So it looks like there is none in place when in fact the old one is in there and looks like it part of the head casting.

In the image below, stolen from zundfolge 1-4-3-2's gallery :shock: :D . You can see the recess where the intake gasket rests before it's crushed into the intake port creating the seal of the intake manifold and the head.
If your heads don't have the pronounced recess. You can bet that the gasket is still there and needs to be removed before installing the new gasket. Double stack them and you may end up with an intake vacuum leak.

Those gaskets that you posted are for the exhaust. Not intake.

Good Luck.

Fri Jan 05, 2018 6:46 pm

Oh yeah - and be VERY careful removing the old gaskets from the heads...Last thing you want to do it put a scratch in the head sealing surface....

Sat Jan 06, 2018 4:47 am

I had two gasket kits, one has all silver colored metal pieces and the other has several copper colored pieces. Which is the recommended type to use for the manifold to head connection?

Also, there appears to be a very slight difference in the shape of each of the manifold to head gaskets. One side is smooth rounded, and the other side has a slight ridge with a seam. Which side shoul be face up in the head to mate to the manifold flange?

Sat Jan 06, 2018 5:31 am

The important thing is that you use the correct size gasket. It will fit in with very little play. I have not found any difference in whether the ridge is up or down or whether its copper or aluminum....Most of the ones I have done were aluminum though. No sealer is needed.

Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:49 am

Thanks very much everyone!

I can’t help but wonder why acorn nuts are used to secure the manifold to the heads??? I’ve yet to encounter this type of fastener anywhere else on the car.

Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:56 am

FL-Frank wrote: I can’t help but wonder why acorn nuts are used to secure the manifold to the heads???? I’ve yet to encounter this type of fastener anywhere else on the car.

I worked on hundreds of these VWs back in the early 1970s when many were still original, and NEVER ONCE saw an acorn (cap) nut to secure an intake manifold to the cylinder heads; the only place I can remember acorn nuts were on the oil pan studs.

I would replace those with standard 6mm x 1.0mm nuts and washers.

Sat Jan 06, 2018 7:56 am

FL-Frank wrote: Thanks very much everyone!

I can’t help but wonder why acorn nuts are used to secure the manifold to the heads??? I’ve yet to encounter this type of fastener anywhere else on the car.
Say what?
You don't have acorn nuts on the oil sump cover?
They slow the ooze of oil from the sump. If you use regular nuts. The oil will over time get past the sump studs and unto your garage floor.

Just sayin.

Sat Jan 06, 2018 8:07 am

67rustavenger wrote: FL-Frank wrote: Thanks very much everyone!

I can’t help but wonder why acorn nuts are used to secure the manifold to the heads??? I’ve yet to encounter this type of fastener anywhere else on the car.
Say what?
You don't have acorn nuts on the oil sump cover?
They slow the ooze of oil from the sump. If you use regular nuts. The oil will over time get past the sump studs and unto your garage floor.

Just sayin.

Ah yes, I forgot about those little guys.

Sat Jan 06, 2018 1:16 pm

Stock I've never see acorn nuts on either the intake manifold or on the oil pump cover. I have had the recommendation of sealing nuts (NOT nylok nuts) on the pump cover to stop leaks, but not acorn nuts.

Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:51 pm

As for the intake manifold seals, you need to make sure the old one is out of the head. They can end up looking like they are part of the head and you have to dig into there with a pick or small screwdriver to get the little buggers out. If you don't, and stack a new one on top of an old one, it won't seal right, and that means it won't run right. (This happened to me the very first time I ever had a 40HP manifold off, back like 27+ years ago)

And yes you seldom see them with copper plating any more.

Also, you see different size crush seals because the 40HP 1200 engine came with either 32 or 34mm outside diameter seals on the intake ports. (along with a matching manifold)

Sun Jan 07, 2018 5:08 pm

67rustavenger wrote: FL-Frank wrote: Thanks very much everyone!

I can’t help but wonder why acorn nuts are used to secure the manifold to the heads??? I’ve yet to encounter this type of fastener anywhere else on the car.
Say what?
You don't have acorn nuts on the oil sump cover?
They slow the ooze of oil from the sump. If you use regular nuts. The oil will over time get past the sump studs and unto your garage floor.

Just sayin.

Strainer nuts
Early cars open nut:
50's cars
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/8_58bug/31.jpg
60's cars https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/64bugowners/page_36.jpg

Later cars capped nut-:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/8_1971_beetle_1302/62.jpg
my 66 deluxe manual shows capped,
my 66 1200A manual shows open nut

Sun Jan 07, 2018 5:54 pm

Yes, they changed to cap nuts on the strainer during model year 1964. Not "acorn" style though, when you see that style, they are aftermarket.

But hell, the cap nuts on the oil strainer are actually the same part as VW used to attach Mid1961-68 seatbacks to their bases.

Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:20 pm

[quote="glutamodo"]Yes, they changed to cap nuts on the strainer during model year 1964. Not "acorn" style though, when you see that style, they are aftermarket.

Except for the standard / 1200A