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Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:56 am

Hi everyone. I have a 73 beetle and it came with a single port inside. I have come to the conclusion of rebuilding the engine, which I was originally thinking of changing to dual port, however I have decided to sport the single port for a while longer. I also just did a valve job just about 6 months ago so the heads are in nice shape still.

I daily my car and also live in the arm pit of Arizona (phoenix). Cooling is an issue in the summer and the less heat the engine produces the better. I drive and take trips often so I need it to be reliable as it has been so far. MPG would be a desirable feature as well. I loss a lot of power in the mountains as all VWs do. Around town and down the highway seems fine.

The current motor is a 1600 (I believe) and nothing too major from stock setup. I have H30/31 with 009 distributor, which seems to do fine but just ordered a 205t that I plan to keep. Stock oil bath, stock exhaust, stock tin. I have smaller tire combo, which was a mistake i know.

I was thinking of keeping the 1600sp configuration, since it has probably lost power over the years (almost everything on/in that motor say VW), however I was also considering a 1776sp, for traveling. Also will be doing case savers and install a full flow for filter and maybe oil cooler if I need one.
Is there any side effects of running a 1776sp? Should I consider running a dog house? Or should I plan for a dp set up?

Thanks in advance. This will be my first bottom end rebuild so it will be exciting.

Wed Jan 17, 2018 9:43 am

Personally feel the the stock 1600 has plenty of power in a type1 if built right and maintained correctly. Been happy with driving stock 1200cc 40 HP or the big bore 40 HP 1300cc engines.

Definitely run the complete DH cooling system, and at least oil pressure and temp gauges. A 1776 will burn more fuel and thusly create more heat due top burning more fuel/air per minute. Plus if you increase piston size, much over slip in 87mm cylinders you loose cooling fins surface area on the cylinders exteriors.

DP or SP is not really going to affect cooling in that alone. VW having to lean out the ACVW engine to keep down EPA regulated emissions caused more cooling problem and thusly the DH cooling system was a needed step for VW back in the day.

Do consider for better engine longevity going with a good quality counter weighted crankshaft that is forged, not cast. You could go with a 74 mm stroke crankshaft to get more cc and more torque to climb hills better. Would need to shim cylinders to keep the compression ratio down enough to keep over heating and possibly detonation from happening. Plus an oil filter/pump like the CB Maxi 2 or VW of Mexico for full oil filtration that will protect your engine bearings.

Wed Jan 17, 2018 10:27 am

I have a '73 engine in my '70. It runs beautifully using the 009 and 30/31. I've been thinking about switching back to a single port. Funny if we could work out a trade (although the distance is very far). Does the serial number on your engine happen to begin with AE? That's what I am looking for. My current engine is an AK - mid Febuary 1973 with the better M8 studs that don't pull out as easily as the early M10 studs.

Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:08 am

BeatleSmith wrote: I live in the arm pit of Arizona (phoenix).

So do I; so I will offer up my own hands-on experience.

BeatleSmith wrote: Cooling is an issue in the summer and the less heat the engine produces the better. I drive and take trips often so I need it to be reliable as it has been so far.

The current motor is a 1600 (I believe) and nothing too major from stock setup. I have H30/31 with 009 distributor, which seems to do fine but just ordered a 205t that I plan to keep. Stock oil bath, stock exhaust, stock tin. I have smaller tire combo, which was a mistake i know.

Yes, cooling needs to be considered. With 1600cc or 1776cc I definitely recommend a full doghouse oil cooler shroud set-up, and also recommend oil filter pump like CB Performance Maxi2. My own 1835cc DP engine is in my 1971 Convertible and that one also has 14-inch aftermarket wheels, seems fine.

I run a Solex H30/31 with adapter and vintage German 009 distributor with my 1600cc DP engine, seems to be fine. If you go dual-port and use that carb, you'd need an adapter. Some here might think that a H30/31 carb might restrict flow for a 1776cc engine.

BeatleSmith wrote: However I was also considering a 1776sp, for traveling. Also will be doing case savers and install a full flow for filter and maybe oil cooler if I need one.
Is there any side effects of running a 1776sp? Should I consider running a dog house? Or should I plan for a dp set up?

I think 1776 is a great engine for you, whether single port or dual port. I use stock clutch and transmission with my own 1835cc engine. Dog house cooler and shroud would be "a must".

Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:08 pm

Quote: Does the serial number on your engine happen to begin with AE?

Tom, unfortunately the engine that is in the car actually doesn't have a serial number under the generator stand so it is kind of a mystery motor to be honest. Probably was a vw exchange engine. Also one of the studs are pulling around cylinder 2.

I was really thinking sp to be truthful for the better low end torque. Is there much of a difference switching to dual port? Of coarse more air fuel makes more power, but does it really matter on such a small application?

Cusser, do you run an external oil cooler at all? I would hate to kill my engine in the arizona sun.

Quote: and at least oil pressure and temp gauges
I have a digital gauge that I was planning to hook up. Its probably from the 90's so it is an interesting set up. shows rpm, oil pressure, temp, and voltage. I just need to find the right fitting to hook everything up.

Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:36 pm

At the shop I worked at a while ago, we used to build 1700cc engines out of old single ports. We did it by combining stock barrels (85.5mm) and a mild stroker crank (74mm). They were great for the street and highway, provided plenty of toque but lacked upper end HP. But if you're just looking for a cruiser, it's a fantastic engine that was mild enough to maintain normal maintenance intervals but give you just a tiny more kick.

Wed Jan 17, 2018 12:42 pm

PatterBon wrote: At the shop I worked at a while ago, we used to build 1700cc engines out of old single ports. We did it by combining stock barrels (85.5mm) and a mild stroker crank (74mm). They were great for the street and highway, provided plenty of toque but lacked upper end HP. But if you're just looking for a cruiser, it's a fantastic engine that was mild enough to maintain normal maintenance intervals but give you just a tiny more kick.

How is that kind of engine are reliability? Im sure it sucks more gas but It can't be too bad, right? How much clearancing do you have to do for that?

Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:13 pm

BeatleSmith wrote:
I was really thinking sp to be truthful for the better low end torque. Is there much of a difference switching to dual port? Of coarse more air fuel makes more power, but does it really matter on such a small application?

"Small application" has nothing to do with anything. So much heat just needs so much cooling. Really depends more on how much you want to push it, to how long it will last.

Back in the old days when the national speed limit was 55 MPH, the local VW repair shop noted that one could expect to get 200,000 to even 300,000 miles out of a later 1970s bus type 4 engine. Speed limits went up and the expected engine lifespan between major repair/rebuild dropped down to more like 100,000 to 125,000 miles and would have a valve problem/s at that point.

We ran 40 HP and the big bore 40 HP engines in our 1960 bus, and found after about 30,000-40,000 miles the engines were just tired out dogs that would not climb that hill like it used to... Went simply from running 3,800 RPM for a top cruising speed to 3,000 RPM and kept oil temp at or better yet below 220F , the next big bore 40 HP engine we finally pulled out at a little over 80,000 miles that was still running like new, but the end play had gotten too much. Now have a 1641 SP in the same bus with over 150,000 miles since the last rebuild!! That is with the slip in 87 mm P&Cs that have the reputation to warp and loose compression all too easily with far less miles, but for us by keeping down the heat they are still running like new.

Sure if one is going to only put on say 3,000 miles average per year, 30,000 to 40,000 miles is going to be 10-14 or so years, it is not going to be big deal. On the other hand if you are like us, years ago we were putting on 10,000 to 20,000 miles every year, so every 2-4 years rebuilding the engine again. That starts to add up in both money and time to do...

Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:22 pm

BeatleSmith wrote: PatterBon wrote: At the shop I worked at a while ago, we used to build 1700cc engines out of old single ports. We did it by combining stock barrels (85.5mm) and a mild stroker crank (74mm). They were great for the street and highway, provided plenty of toque but lacked upper end HP. But if you're just looking for a cruiser, it's a fantastic engine that was mild enough to maintain normal maintenance intervals but give you just a tiny more kick.

How much clearancing do you have to do for that?

You shouldn't need ANY clearancing with a 74mm stroker crankshaft (stock is 69mm).

Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:31 pm

Cusser wrote:
You shouldn't need ANY clearancing with a 74mm stroker crankshaft (stock is 69mm).

We are going to try 78 mm in the next engine for just that more torque in the bus. Even that will will require just a little clearance work from what we have heard from others who have already done such. Going to try the stock 85.5 mm P&Cs to work with that stroke.

Wed Jan 17, 2018 1:45 pm

That is what am in process of doing. Removing the 1776cc and going with the single port 1600cc. Hmm the 74mm cranks does sound interesting with a single port.
So what type of carb was used on that motor?

Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:14 pm

gt1953 wrote: That is what am in process of doing. Removing the 1776cc and going with the single port 1600cc. Hmm the 74mm cranks does sound interesting with a single port.
So what type of carb was used on that motor?

Known plenty of other bus owners that have run the bigger engines up to about 1776cc with stock single port 1500/1600 carb or after market dual carbs. Either with stock muffler. The single stock carb just means one is not going to get screaming high RPMs out of the engine that some might want for super duper high HP, but more lower end torque that is better for climbing hills.

Of course if one is going all out for drag racing, high RPMS for take off is required. So stock carb and exhaust system are not what they are needing.

New a fellow on the vintagebus list that built his dream large engine, with big valved heads, dual carbs, lightened flywheel, and custom big diameter exhaust. About six months later he was on the list trading all the high RPM/HP parts off for stock ones. He just hated that to get going at each stop required revving up the engine so much to get it going.

Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:31 pm

Thanks for the replys everyone! I think I will go with 1700cc build with the 74mm counter weighted crank for my first build. It seems like a good idea to add a little extra grunt to the low end and I can always upgrade the top end a little later if I have more need for speed :P
While we are on the subject. What should I do about a cam? Should I go for a stock cam or something different from cb performance or something?

Wed Jan 17, 2018 5:49 pm

Unless you are going to invest in the bigger better breathing HP parts now, anything other than a stock cam will be a waste of money. Beside the stock cam is going to give you the most for torque.

Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:04 pm

Sorry for the late reply! We used Solex H30/31 carbs on the ones we built. And being that it's only about 115ccs bigger than the original engine size, it's behaves much like a stock engine in terms of fuel consumption and upkeep. It just has a bit more power and torque than a standard 1600 SP.

Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:42 pm

You will probably need 0.090" cylinder spacers with your A type 85.5 pistons.
I used a CB 2280 cheater cam on my engine. Mine is also a 1700 but dual port.

If you're going to a bigger engine than stock, why limit yourself to a "stock" carb that is small? I'd get the Empi single port end castings, a dual port center section from CB and use an Empi 34 Pict on it. They even come with a bigger main jet already although you may need to buy bigger.

-Frank

Fri Jan 19, 2018 7:34 am

As for cam, I really like the CB 2280 in my 1970 1600SP build. I also mildly ported the single port heads. Even with a stock carb and muffler, this little motor pulls great and I can hang with traffic on the highway no problem.

I also recommend you read this article: http://www.aircooled.net/vw-type-1-mileage-engine-mpg/ Lots of great info as you plan your engine build.

Hot VW's built a motor for max MPG a couple of years ago and also used the CB 2280 cam. If I remember right, they achieved 90 HP with their 85.5x76 (1745cc). Here's a link to the flipbook with all the details: https://hotvws.com/digital-magazine/2006-MileageMotor/

Fri Jan 19, 2018 12:41 pm

I was thinking of actually doing a 34 pict on an empi manifold for a while now. I think if I need more power I have a 34 pict sitting around and I can through that together if I feel I need more power later on.
I was also thinking about one of CB stage 1 fuel efficiency cams, but I have some research to do on that. I noticed that aircooled did mention the CB 2280 though. I was also thinking the header they suggest but like the stock sound right now.