TheSamba.com :: View topic - Greasing CV Joints In Situ [From our Dumb Question Dept.]

Sat Jun 09, 2018 8:24 am

I was reading a thread the other night [I've lost it now] where people were discussing ways they've greased their CV Joints without removing them, such as cutting a hole in the boot to squirt the grease through and then patching the boot again –or using a long hollow needle to inject the grease down through from the end of the boot.

Not wanting to go for the destructive boot-cutting method, I had a go at the injecting technique today. But didn't have much luck, mainly because all I could come up with was a thin piece of tube on a syringe, while I held the end of the boot slightly open with a screwdriver. I think most of what I tried to inject ended up leaking out round where the tube joined onto the syringe.

Looking at the CV joint,. it looks like the most obvious way to get the grease into the joint would be to undo the bolts [arrowed] holding the boot in place at the joint end and slap the grease in there...

But, given that nobody suggested or admitted to doing it that way, I assume this is a really dumb idea. So, do the bolts at that end do more than attach the CV Joint and hold the boot in place? ie. If I removed those would I end up swimming in a pool of transmission fluid?

Sat Jun 09, 2018 8:44 am

On some of the CV's it's as easy as you think -- just remove those bolts, stuff in a big gob of grease, and bolt it back together.

Certain CV's (I can't remember -- maybe the Syncro outer fronts?) are not so simple to get apart.

I've had good luck with a needle adapter for my grease gun. I remove the inner CV clamp, slip the needle in-between the shaft and the boot (like you did) and pump in 20 pumps or so...

-Bill
'89 Syncro

Sat Jun 09, 2018 8:51 am

If I may add another dumb question- isn't there a circlip holding the axle onto the transmission? I suppose you need a special tool to remove and install? Is it easily visible and accessible?

There are a whole bunch of maintenance jobs I am thinking of doing myself but it seems every one requires the purchase of new tools, many of which I might use once every ten years....

Sat Jun 09, 2018 9:18 am

Often a small screwdriver is all you need if you're patient and careful.

I also have a set of cheapo ($30?) snap-ring pliers in about 10 different sizes/styles which I can usually make fit just about anything on the van.

You can get by pretty well with a fairly small set of tools. I haven't yet needed an actual special VW tool for anything. Mostly my vanagon toolbox is 10 different styles of 13mm wrench... :D

-Bill

Sat Jun 09, 2018 9:34 am

Nothing but the bolts holding CV/Axle to trans. Front outers are much more difficult to remove.

Best solution is to buy a grease gun and needle. I did it and it's an invaluable tool and super easy to add grease.

Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:29 am

stuzbot wrote: ...didn't have much luck, mainly because all I could come up with was a thin piece of tube on a syringe, while I held the end of the boot slightly open with a screwdriver. I think most of what I tried to inject ended up leaking out round where the tube joined onto the syringe...

I've never had a problem with the plastic hypo:

Grease choice may be a factor - the stuff made for CVs isn't terribly thick.

Cutting the end of the tube at an angle may also help grease to more freely exit.

Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:28 am

Can I sneak a dumb question in here as well? I’ve installed the GW 1.5” lift springs on my 2WD and I’m planning on replacing the CVs per everyone’s suggestions due to the new, more acute angle.

<dumb question>There’s 4 total CVs in the rear of a 2WD right? And are they all the same, or is there a different “inner” vs “outer” for each side? </dumb question>

Sun Jun 10, 2018 11:28 am

redrocksteady wrote: Can I sneak a dumb question in here as well? I’ve installed the GW 1.5” lift springs on my 2WD and I’m planning on replacing the CVs per everyone’s suggestions due to the new, more acute angle.

<dumb question>There’s 4 total CVs in the rear of a 2WD right? And are they all the same, or is there a different “inner” vs “outer” for each side? </dumb question>

4 total, all the same.

Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:57 pm

redrocksteady wrote: Can I sneak a dumb question in here as well? I’ve installed the GW 1.5” lift springs on my 2WD and I’m planning on replacing the CVs per everyone’s suggestions due to the new, more acute angle.

<dumb question>There’s 4 total CVs in the rear of a 2WD right? And are they all the same, or is there a different “inner” vs “outer” for each side? </dumb question>

Did your CVs start clicking after you went with the lift springs? If not, why are you changing them?

Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:53 am

After my 2wd 1.5" lift, mine didn't start clicking, but popping. I think it might be the springs popping - not sure.

I am going to play it safe. I bought the Genuine GLK/Lobro 944 CV Joint Kit from T3 with Rockford boots.

Have not installed them - but my buddy has and he still has popping/clunking. We think it might be also due to our shock fox body hitting the frame. We did not make modifications to our rear frame

Mon Jun 11, 2018 7:08 am

This is a good place to RTFM. I do not mean to insult anyone. Just about every question that is raised on this thread is covered in the "Bentley Book".
If those 6 socket head bolts are removed the CV joint will come off the trans drive flange, unless it is rusted in place. The flange is held onto the side gear with a snap ring, but that is covered by a plastic plug. And no, trans/gear oil should not drain out if the CV joint is removed from the flange. Unless that plastic plug is loose or punctured. There is usually no reason to remove the flange unless the seal is leaking or you are repairing the transaxle.
For those trying to diagnose clicking, popping CVs try this; Drive around a sharp corner at low speed then accelerate moderately. If you here a click-click, clunk-clunk-clunk that speeds up in time with the Van speed you probably have a worn CV(s).
Remove the CV axles, clamp the axle center in a vise, and wiggle the CV while moving it in-out along the line of the axle. If you feel more play at some point replace the CV. You do not need to spend any time cleaning it unless you are going to try to build CVs from mix and match old parts.
I would advise against this as there are so many different CVs out there now that are probably just a few hundredths of a mm off and will have trouble now or soon.
Again most of this is covered in the BOOK. LIKE DUDE, THERE'S PICTURES!

Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:00 am

There are many threads on CVs and you will find opinions that needle lubrication is a bad idea.

Out in the sticks, CV noise, no where to get it dealt with? Of course, needle lube is better than nothing.

Of course, you are using a sub-par technique to compensate for your lack of maintenance.

If you have OG CVs, pull and pack every 50k and they last forever.

Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:13 am

Abscate wrote: ...Of course, you are using a sub-par technique to compensate for your lack of maintenance...

Here's an alternate view from someone who actually owns a Vanagon.

I inject grease from time to time. It has been more than 100,000 miles since I re-packed the CVs -- all is well.

If the boots would split (many do) then that would be an opportunity to remove them for a complete re-grease but so far that has not happened either.

Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:31 pm

llilibel03 wrote:

Did your CVs start clicking after you went with the lift springs? If not, why are you changing them?

No not yet, but just trying to be prepared for it if/when they do. Everything I read seemed to infer that it would be inevitable. But maybe not!

Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:33 pm

There are levels here.

Grease is much better than dry. If your CVs are dry you are doing a good thing adding grease. If you are leaving on a trip, and wondering if they might be dry,,,, the simple and easy act of adding grease is worthwhile.

Removing the metal-contaminated grease, and replacing it 100% with clean grease, is much better than just diluting your metal-contaminated grease with a little fresh grease.

Tue Jun 12, 2018 5:05 am

If you are at home and not needing to leave tomorrow then pull off both axles and clean the CV's and put on fresh grease.

Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:05 am

dobryan wrote: If you are at home and not needing to leave tomorrow then pull off both axles and clean the CV's and put on fresh grease.

X2 when I redo a CV shaft, I don't put any grease into the boot. All grease is applied to the ramps, balls, and race. I try to have the flange where the CV bolts clean and free of any grease. I do put a dollup of grease in the flange before bolting in the axle shaft.

Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:45 am

Ok, I like all the angles being presented, but want to add this, just so the OP might have the opportunity to REALLY HEAR it:

The 6 point bolts are usually HARD to get off. Inevitably, there will be at least one per CV that is just plain stuck. Just to have a baseline 50/50 chance of NOT messing up the 6 point hole, you have to clean those holes out as if your life depended on it. Make sure you seat the tool ALL the way in, and that it is exactly right size. Sometimes, somewhere along the way, another owner has done you multiple favors by mixing in non-standard parts, or rounding out the hole and then you get nightmares. Also, once the hole gets messed up, you could spend hours getting it out. Best thing I learned was to seat the tool, then smack it hard with a hammer, directly at the end. Maybe two or three good baps! Push in as hard as you can on your ratchet end and apply steady force. When it moves a tiny bit, switch the ratchet and tighten it just slightly (but less than you loosened it) then switch back and loosen it more. If the depth of the outer CV in the trailing arm daunts you, its always an option to get the King nut off the stub axle and slide it through, then use the vice to hold the axle while dealing with cleaning and removing the 6 point bolts from the outer CVs. I know I know, the axle nut is also hard to get off, but is it harder to get off than destroying the 6 points in the outer CV? After all, you're on a war-path to grease stuff, right? You might as well fall in the rabbit hole and needle grease the wheel bearings too, I guess, so you will need to get the stubs out anyway... AND look at the brakes, eh?

Always replace the 6 point bolts with 12 point ones, called Tripple-Square, and get the 3" tripple square tool, as the 1" just makes your life more difficult. Get the longer one even if your packet of new bolts comes with a tool!

If I have taken the thread to be saying "I know the bolts are difficult" and that is why you just want to get some grease in there, sure, needle fill it a bit.

If you actually want to know what your state of decay the CV is in, you will need to get all 4 off, and clean, repack, etc. Be extremely careful to NOT mix up any of the parts from each CV with any other, they wear together. Take the opportunity to replace the boots, even if they look quite youthful. You don't need to get another 3K miles and have a boot go bad only to need to do it again, I'd guess?

One thing you might also want to know is that on many rigs, a whole axle has been replaced. Its a keen idea my kid's '86 PO had with their auto trans, which they immediately mixed up parts, and it took days and a micrometer to sort back out. Also, the axle shafts are not equal length in the Auto... All in the book tho, just pay some attention.

If you do pull your axles and your CVs are all good, be sure you put them back in place as you took them out. Sometimes, if they are worn, you can get away with reversing them, but it is a tricky sort of reversal.. Find a forum thread that has good info on that BEFORE attempting it.

Regards,

-bobby

Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:58 am

bobbyblack wrote: Ok, I like all the angles being presented, but want to add this, just so the OP might have the opportunity to REALLY HEAR it:

The 6 point bolts are usually HARD to get off. Inevitably, there will be at least one per CV that is just plain stuck. Just to have a baseline 50/50 chance of NOT messing up the 6 point hole, you have to clean those holes out as if your life depended on it. Make sure you seat the tool ALL the way in, and that it is exactly right size. Sometimes, somewhere along the way, another owner has done you multiple favors by mixing in non-standard parts, or rounding out the hole and then you get nightmares. Also, once the hole gets messed up, you could spend hours getting it out. Best thing I learned was to seat the tool, then smack it hard with a hammer, directly at the end. Maybe two or three good baps! Push in as hard as you can on your ratchet end and apply steady force. When it moves a tiny bit, switch the ratchet and tighten it just slightly (but less than you loosened it) then switch back and loosen it more. If the depth of the outer CV in the trailing arm daunts you, its always an option to get the King nut off the stub axle and slide it through, then use the vice to hold the axle while dealing with cleaning and removing the 6 point bolts from the outer CVs. I know I know, the axle nut is also hard to get off, but is it harder to get off than destroying the 6 points in the outer CV? After all, you're on a war-path to grease stuff, right? You might as well fall in the rabbit hole and needle grease the wheel bearings too, I guess, so you will need to get the stubs out anyway... AND look at the brakes, eh?

Always replace the 6 point bolts with 12 point ones, called Tripple-Square, and get the 3" tripple square tool, as the 1" just makes your life more difficult. Get the longer one even if your packet of new bolts comes with a tool!

If I have taken the thread to be saying "I know the bolts are difficult" and that is why you just want to get some grease in there, sure, needle fill it a bit.

If you actually want to know what your state of decay the CV is in, you will need to get all 4 off, and clean, repack, etc. Be extremely careful to NOT mix up any of the parts from each CV with any other, they wear together. Take the opportunity to replace the boots, even if they look quite youthful. You don't need to get another 3K miles and have a boot go bad only to need to do it again, I'd guess?

One thing you might also want to know is that on many rigs, a whole axle has been replaced. Its a keen idea my kid's '86 PO had with their auto trans, which they immediately mixed up parts, and it took days and a micrometer to sort back out. Also, the axle shafts are not equal length in the Auto... All in the book tho, just pay some attention.

If you do pull your axles and your CVs are all good, be sure you put them back in place as you took them out. Sometimes, if they are worn, you can get away with reversing them, but it is a tricky sort of reversal.. Find a forum thread that has good info on that BEFORE attempting it.

Regards,

-bobby

What exactly is the size?

Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:05 am

12 point CV socket. No affiliation, but I get a lot of stuff from these folks.

https://www.amazon.com/Empi-12Pt-Hex-CV-Removal/dp/B004K9S3UQ