TheSamba.com :: View topic - Engine Rebuild

Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:47 am

Hi,

Rebuilding a 1500cc making it a 1776. Figured I'd use the original lifters. Any reason I shouldn't? Specific wear I should look out for?

-Bugs

Thu Aug 16, 2018 12:01 pm

Hello,
If you're doing a rebuild, why not use new lifter to go with a new cam? would be my question to you... When you do a low budget rebuild, you get what you payed for....
If you're going to do it, do it right; the first time.

Thu Aug 16, 2018 12:01 pm

[quote="Buggo"]Hi,

Rebuilding a 1500cc making it a 1776. Figured I'd use the original lifters. Any reason I shouldn't? Specific wear I should look out for?

-Bugs[/quot

why would you use used lifters the lifters are hardend and if your using a new cam it will be softer than them lifters i dont think this is the place to save money if that is what your trying to do

Thu Aug 16, 2018 12:01 pm

Sort of depends on what you need from the motor.

Basic check is for curvature; place a pair face to face, and they should roll. If they are flat they are trash. Inspect the bores they go into and check for play, even if only by feel. Check the corresponding cam lobes for anything odd that would make you suspect the lifters.

If you are doing a total rebuild with new P&Cs and heads, maybe a new crank, why take the chance?

Thu Aug 16, 2018 12:20 pm

Are you using the same cam? Did you keep the lifters in order to the matched cam lobe?

Thu Aug 16, 2018 12:25 pm

It would be acceptable ONLY if ALL the following applies . . .
1) If, as KTPhil mentioned, the lifters are CONVEX . . . not flat or concave.
2) The cam that the lifters were run on is in good condition and it is reused.
3) The lifters were numbered at the time of disassembly so that they can be returned to the same cam lobes when reassembled.

That is to say . . . the used lifters are used in the same position on the same cam . . . a matched, good, used set!

Otherwise . . .the econo route is reground cam & lifters.

BTW . . . if ya get this part wrong, yer engine will last a VERY short time (days or hours or even just minutes!) before it will need another rebuild! :wink:

Thu Aug 16, 2018 1:23 pm

reusing old lifter on a new cam is foolishly cheap, and might cost you another rebuild. Friend reused his old lifters on a new cam, first cam lobe went flat in less than 100 miles. he used cam assembly lube, everything was correct, except the reused lifters. Used lifters get a wear pattern and that can adversely effect the new cam break in, or lack of break in, when that happens the cam is ground away, as was the lifter, it was a quarter inch shorter after 100 miles! The lobe was basically round!

For the low cost of a new set, it is worth it. Do folks get away with it? Yes, it all depends on how worn that lifter is, and the way the cam was ground, some combinations simply do not work. If you could know ahead of time for sure, then reuse them, if your not dead sure, why risk a repeat of the rebuild??? The darn near whole enchilada needs come apart to replace the cam. Plus you will be circulating worn metal bits thru the oil, bearings dont take well to that

Bug On, Good Luck On Your Rebuild!!!

Thu Aug 16, 2018 2:34 pm

I rebuilt my 1600cc 1.5 years ago, had a used camshaft that checked out. I installed brand new lifters from CB Performance.

Thu Aug 16, 2018 2:57 pm

Original cam. They were not numbered upon disassembly. My thought is that maybe new stuff is not as quality as the original stuff. I have no problem getting new lifters if the originals are a liability. Ill have the cam checked out and go with new lifters. ill check out CB Performance. thanks yall.

-bugs

Thu Aug 16, 2018 3:13 pm

Gene Berg has good lifters for a good price . A couple of years ago they were thirty dollars .

Thu Aug 16, 2018 3:18 pm

Stock cam???? VW German made??? If you are using that and you have checked it for wear.....Have those original lifters reground and use them. You may think they are flat....but they should not be.

Thu Aug 16, 2018 3:24 pm

New cam with reground lifters gave me this result....Not good. Do it right and do it once. Less then a hundred miles.

Thu Aug 16, 2018 3:25 pm

Back in the day, we used to always re-run them tried to keep them matched though. They become concave though but if they are smooth they are wearing nicely. The cam probably is a bit worn down too. But since they were not kept track of where they go I would opt for an upgrade in cam, Like the CB Eagle 2280 and the Regular CB lifters that aren't expensive.

I see from the other thread you're using the original single oil relief case! It would be ok to make it a 1776cc but given that case and all I would just probably put in Thickwall at the head, fit at the case 88mm Piston and Cylinders and 69mm stock stroke crank for a 1679cc engine. You can go to even a W-100 cam on the single ports keeping your carb. And you could if your crank is bad anyhow go to a 74mm Crank for the 1800cc but that starts to make it more expensive as it need's different rods and a little clearance work etc.. well maybe not with the 90.5's "1904cc" Nuts! What are you doing for Single Port Heads?

Thu Aug 16, 2018 4:09 pm

Danwvw,

I was going to use the original heads. was going to get them inspected by my machine shop to be sure they can be reused. haha, should I be upgrading heads too?

Bugo

Thu Aug 16, 2018 4:18 pm

Buggo wrote: Danwvw,

I was going to use the original heads. was going to get them inspected by my machine shop to be sure they can be reused. haha, should I be upgrading heads too?

Bugo

do not reuse exhaust valves

Thu Aug 16, 2018 4:27 pm

It's really hard to find good enough heads for having them rebuilt at least with dual port heads it is. Probably with your engine though, keep it a single port. And keep it simple would be best. ACN has new single port heads choices and John there can advise. I do know that if your heads are the original 1500cc engine single port heads they need the cc's increased though as they come out too high of compression when opened for 88/90.5/92 cylinders.
Clean your old heads up really good and have a good look for cracks around the valves and spark plug holes, Check that the spark plug threads in the heads are all 4 good no welds or inserts, Check that the heads can hold new exhaust and intake studs. Mine had to be Welded at the exhaust Ports to hold the studs again. Probably will need new valve guides too. The Machine shop does all that for you. Get new exhaust valves too. I run the upgraded HD valve springs on my dual port heads and upgraded Chrome Moly retainers. Not sure those work on single port heads? Probably Don't need the HD springs but at least new Stock Valve Springs are always a good idea when rebuilding heads.

Thu Aug 16, 2018 5:40 pm

[quote="gt1953"]New cam with reground lifters gave me this result....Not good. Do it right and do it once. Less then a hundred miles.

[/quote

Anytime you change cam...change the lifters...new/new/compatible.
Old reground lifters for old OE VW cam.

Thu Aug 16, 2018 5:52 pm

Cusser wrote: I rebuilt my 1600cc 1.5 years ago, had a used camshaft that checked out. I installed brand new lifters from CB Performance.

From my understanding, since I recently researched this do to friends cam and lifter fail within 100 mile of new cam install with used lifters is... You can get away with new lifters on a used cam, but used lifters on a new cam is where you may run into trouble.

Elgin Cam is a very good cam grinding company, stock, race, production cars. give them a call, they will be able to answer your question as to the risk of old lifters, new cam. In the past they told me to use new lifters, or send in my old ones for inspection before using their cam. The checked out my lifters and sent them back with a note they were no good. bought new lifters and cam and been having no problems, three engines of mine have Elgin cams.

The Elgin website has some nice technical info, and they offer a large range of vw bug cams

link...

http://elgincams.com

Bug On!

Fri Aug 17, 2018 5:28 pm

cam shaft is actually a cofap, not stock

Fri Aug 17, 2018 6:01 pm

Cofap is stock... for a Brazilian-made VW.