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Sun Aug 26, 2018 8:57 pm

Alrighty, I made the wiring harness and it's complete minus putting it all in a nice box and fitting it *hopefully* under the back storage area behind the closet. You guys were right- it was way easier than I thought and the rest of this build is going to be way harder than the harness was. Much thanks to Christopher Schimke for his many contributions documenting his 50deg. swap!

So now here's the thing, I need some advice and wisdom! It's regarding an intercooler. Yes I've done my hours upon hours of homework and reading/videos/talking to people who know turbos better than I, but hear me out:

Do I go air and air or water and air? I'd much more prefer going air to air for two reasons- 1.It's way cheaper than running a water cooled intercooler, and 2.It's way simpler to install than an entire water to air system.

Do any of you have anything to ad as far as why I absolutely should not go with a simpler air to air intercooler? I know others who have rant his swap have done water to air, but seriously the reservoir, radiator, pump, and the system it's self is just a huge pain compared to simply installing a "diy one size fits all" air/air intercooler.

Obviously air flow is to be considered on how much air will be able to hit this intercooler. One dude ran two air/air intercoolers in each side of the engine bay that hooked up together kind of like the busaru guy used to run his engine bay radiators.

I've already spoken to some people about turbos and if an air/air system would work okay (we're not trying to blow the HP out of the water or anything) but I'm all ears for what you guys think!!

Mon Aug 27, 2018 6:08 am

those of use who went air-water did so not because we are loaded with cash..
and love complexity but because it works, and the closer to ambient intake air temps the better HP and efficiency.

I know more than a few who went air-air 1st then after a couple limp mode hill climbs changed over to air-water

but hey Stephen's and other's just slap an air-air intercooler in the rear compartment with a fan.. sure must work for all those people..

what I do know is my air-water IATs run ~23* over ambient at normal highway cruising and never above 130* overall on pulls in 90*+ heat on Mtn passes.

the hotter your AITs the more the ECU retards timing.. it can only to a point..
you can adjust that some by running high octane fuels (I run 87octane unless the conditions are hot/steep)

on my next revision/build I'll be adding a fuel cooler(heat exchanger) to the H2o intercooler system to bring down the gasoline temps and improve extreme heat temperature build up from the road & radiator heating the fuel tank.

Mon Aug 27, 2018 10:51 am

danfromsyr wrote: I know more than a few who went air-air 1st then after a couple limp mode hill climbs changed over to air-water

but hey Stephen's and other's just slap an air-air intercooler in the rear compartment with a fan.. sure must work for all those people..

what I do know is my air-water IATs run ~23* over ambient at normal highway cruising and never above 130* overall on pulls in 90*+ heat on Mtn passes.

Well shoot, I for sure want to do it right the first time! Didn't think about running air/air with a fan... I forgot Stephen's did that on their conversions. Hm... I'll have to try to find an air/water setup without busting the bank account, maybe in the mean time I'll shoot for air/air w/fan to set up and get us through winter temps and by the time spring comes around I'll have saved up and sourced a good air/water system.

Your fuel cooling setup sounds cool, let me know if you document it. I'm in the middle of some experimentation regarding running a generator off fumes to decrease consumption and emissions. Heat has played a major part in vaporizing it, but a return line would definitely need to be cooled before returning to the tank... I'm interested in how you plan to set that up.

Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:13 am

In the link I posted on page 1 to Andrew Flints 50 degree install he detailed a nice air/air solution.

Mon Aug 27, 2018 1:48 pm

levi wrote: In the link I posted on page 1 to Andrew Flints 50 degree install he detailed a nice air/air solution.

Thanks! I lost that swap somewhere in my tabs... he's got some awesome pictures! About half way down on page 3 he's got some great pictures- looks like he hooked up the PS pump to the Vanagon?! That would be an awesome luxury!

Mon Aug 27, 2018 4:13 pm

danfromsyr wrote:
but hey Stephen's and other's just slap an air-air intercooler in the rear compartment with a fan.. sure must work for all those people..

Link to his build ?

Mon Aug 27, 2018 4:39 pm

http://h2ovanagon.com/

Mon Aug 27, 2018 8:03 pm

danfromsyr wrote: http://h2ovanagon.com/ Ah , here it is https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...p;start=20 had to get his Samba forum name :wink:

Mon Aug 27, 2018 8:50 pm

ahh yes, that was just in my early 1.8T development and I installed it that next spring.. so since 2013 for me. 2 trips NY to the Rockies..
those quoted intake temps are RIDICULOUS.. with the air to air, and I see that was required by the smog certificate... so I get it..

with a proper air/water intercooler the IATs barely raise 30* over ambient on passes. Logan, Teton, black hills, Monarch, million dollar highway.. Red mtn iirc.. though I've never been up Tioga.. so that's on the todo list..
only downshifting to 3rd because of turns/curves not grades..
quoted from the 1.8T thread linked above..

edit: FWIW IATs around 140+ will start to impair and limit engine horsepower. reducing boost. I'd think IATs at 200 would put it into limp mode.. but I haven't ever gotten anywhere near that.
Beetsport wrote: danfromsyr wrote: I'm curious to the placement of the air/air intercooler how effective it is when the DIY guys often install a water/air intercooler.
how is it mounted/ducted in the back? I haven't seen any good pics or intake air temperature #'s if anyone is running a monitor.

I'm very interested in a 1.8T swap, as I'm more of a VAG I4 guy then a Subie fella. not dissing the soobies.. I like them well enough but I don't feel like learning a whole new system when I'm quite familiar with VAG engines and management.

It's mounted in the right rear corner. We use a cooler fan to help keep the heat from the exhaust heating up the cooler. In the past I created an air scoop for the right rear top vent and special ducting to direct the air past the tail lens. Really didn't see too much change.

We created an Water over Air system for a very high HP 1.8T conversion for out of California. Even though this engine was pushing a lot of power the intercooler temps were about 20-30 F cooler under loads. Typically we will see temps around 130-150F (hot Sacramento days) normal driving and 180-200+ full boost on long grades.

California smog laws restrict us to use the stock components like the cooler. Even with stock items the engine still puts out a lot of reliable power.

Mon Aug 27, 2018 9:48 pm

Where in Utah are you? I don't know if I would have any time to look at it, but I might be able to help sort questions. I know some stuff and junk.

Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:02 am

hans j wrote: I know some stuff and junk.

Understatement of the Year.

Tue Aug 28, 2018 12:08 pm

hans j wrote: Where in Utah are you? I don't know if I would have any time to look at it, but I might be able to help sort questions. I know some stuff and junk.

Haha that would be much appreciated! We live in Provo just off the freeway

Sun Nov 25, 2018 3:16 pm

Alrighty- it's been a few months but things are really starting to turn out with this project. I've learned a lot from manuals, videos, forums, and friends about this 1.8t engine. I've wrapped my head around a few things and got it to fire off yesterday for just a few seconds.

I have a bit more to do, but something's got me hung up- the battery that I bought brand new (it's for the Vanagon, maybe I needed a bigger one) isn't really charging past 12.7 Volts. Is this normal? When I go to start it, it turns over very very slowly. Not horrible slow, but like... for sure takes it's time and isn't normal by any means. Not just that, but the battery goes down to 12.4 Volts very quickly after like two tries of turning it over for about 8 seconds each.

Do you guys think I've got some kind of short somewhere? I checked all my wiring and made sure grounds are all good and everything. I tired starting it with and without the alternator wire hooked up directly to the starter, it seemed the same both times. Maybe my battery is trash?

Some insight would be much appreciated. Pictures will come as soon as I hook up more things. The only things I've done is plump all coolant hoses, tap into the oil pan for turbo drain, hook up power steering with reservoir, checked all wires and that I'm getting spark (after I learned I was straight up missing the ICM I put one in and got spark lol), cleaned a butt ton, re-mounted engine to tranny and bought new MAF, filter, intercooler, and everything I could think of to get it going. Pics will come once more is done, in the mean time I'd just like to figure out if my starter needs to be switched with a different one or my battery is too weak or what could possibly be going on!

Thanks in advance!!! Hope you all enjoyed your Thanksgiving. :D

Sun Nov 25, 2018 4:07 pm

It is easy to forget that you need to give it a little gas right after it starts to trip the alternator relay so it charges. Some engines jump up for a second when started so the relay trips by itself, others you have to hit the gas.

I would put it on a trickle charger and make sure the battery is good and charged.

Mon Nov 26, 2018 6:50 pm

I un-plugged the negative cable from the battery and tested the positive end of the battery to the neg. cable. It read 3 volts- so I though there was a big short somewhere but then it read .45 volts after a few minutes and stayed at that the rest of the time investigating. So... there are .45 volts now flowing freely throughout somewhere... is that normal? I would assume I have a short and need to go one wire at a time un-plugging things. I really really hope it's not a bad ecu, but maybe it's some wire from the Vanagon that was un-plugged and touching or something. Unless .45 volts is normal.....

I also charged the battery, then read 13 volts. I tried to start it twice then re-read the voltage and it was at 12.4

What the heck? Anything right off the bat I should check?

Mon Nov 26, 2018 7:13 pm

UtahGOgear wrote: I un-plugged the negative cable from the battery and tested the positive end of the battery to the neg. cable. It read 3 volts- so I though there was a big short somewhere but then it read .45 volts after a few minutes and stayed at that the rest of the time investigating. So... there are .45 volts now flowing freely throughout somewhere... is that normal? I would assume I have a short and need to go one wire at a time un-plugging things. I really really hope it's not a bad ecu, but maybe it's some wire from the Vanagon that was un-plugged and touching or something. Unless .45 volts is normal.....

I also charged the battery, then read 13 volts. I tried to start it twice then re-read the voltage and it was at 12.4

What the heck? Anything right off the bat I should check?
I'm not sure what you're saying with the 3 volts and .45 volts. That wouldn't be how to test for a current drain.

A dying battery can charge up normally but go down super fast. So possibly the battery is bad. But, you can also see 13 volts on a battery that was just on the charger when it isn't fully charged yet. You have to let them sit overnight to know what the resting state of the battery is. It would not read as high as 13 volts resting, so for sure it must have had some surface charge. You can also remove the surface charge by turning on the headlights for a minute and then rechecking voltage. But you basically did that by running the starter. You battery was probably never fully charged. It needs to sit on a charger for at least a day, maybe 2 to get to full charge. And if you did have it on the charger for a long time then it is probably bad.

Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:30 pm

Well, I got the battery tested under load and it's apparently as good as it was off the shelf. I jumped it with my jeep running and it was still way way slow at turning over and eventually wouldn't anymore!

I checked all of my grounds that they have the same volts as the battery and they were all good. I am starting to think that the Vanagon starter is going out or something? Something is wrong, but after spending all day today trying to figure it out I can't quite put my finger on it. I did notice that the throttle body sensor was making some weird buzzing noises when I'd go to start it and it would shut off after a minute or so. Would a bad ECU cause this problem? I wouldn't think so because wouldn't the starter just work fine as it should hooked up to the battery and B+ of the alternator? I also hooked up the alternator check light and when cranking over the light turns off, but no start because I think it's just not turning over fast enough. To add to it, I don't think the fuel pump is pumping anymore.... this is all going up in flames. I'd rather just figure everything else out again than deal with this wiring!!!!

Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:54 pm

UtahGOgear wrote:

..... I did notice that the throttle body sensor was making some weird buzzing noises when I'd go to start it and it would shut off after a minute or so. Would a bad ECU cause this problem? I wouldn't think so because wouldn't the starter just work fine as it should hooked up to the battery and B+ of the alternator? I also hooked up the alternator check light and when cranking over the light turns off, but no start because I think it's just not turning over fast enough. To add to it, I don't think the fuel pump is pumping anymore.... this is all going up in flames. I'd rather just figure everything else out again than deal with this wiring!!!!

TB buzzing could be to do with throttle body alignment? Assuming the wiring harness etc. is correct, disconnecting the battery is probably causing the ECU to lose settings like TB alignment. Every time you disconnect then reconnect the battery, the TB has to be reset or will try to reset? Or something like that.

This might help if you're dealing with a TB alignment issue

http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/Throttle_Body_Alignment_(TBA)

I have no idea what the 1.8T engine management does while the starter turns the motor but I'd guess it would enable the fuel pump to run while doing so. Other than that, like other gas FI systems, I bet the pump only primes, key turned to ignition on. (as it does with the WBX)

Neil.

Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:54 pm

throttlebody will do that, it's ok.. it's 'adapting' on each start up

has nothing to do with cranking slow.

the 1.8T shouldn't crank slow. it isn't really a high compression engine like a subie or tdi.

Edit: I listed the wrong starter.. should be one for a 1982-1983 DIESEL (1.6l) Vanagon
here:: POWER SELECT 17068N
https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/volkswagen,198...motor,4152

fwiw I have bought these NEW starters from Rockauto for my1.8T
currently $75+ship no core
Edit: removed incorrect link to minimize confusion

Tue Nov 27, 2018 6:18 pm

Thanks for the starter referral, that's a lot cheaper than the one I've been buying!

Good to know about the tb. Seemed sketch but I guess I'll just have to not touch the idle before I go to start. I thought it was for sure the battery, but man, I got it to fire up for a few seconds the other day before this slow/dying crank problem began.

Can you bench test these starters in the newer Vanagons? Whenever I've brought in a type 2 starter Autozone has said they can't even bench test it, hopefully I can get this current one tested before spending the money. I suppose I could always try the ol' "tap it with a crow bar" and see if it gets better or not. I mean, I've checked my wiring time and time again today and it all seems to be hooked up right with solid grounds. It seems so weird to me... after cranking it over a few times it won't crank anymore and the battery reads around 12.8 V before and just 12.4 after.