TheSamba.com :: View topic - How Much Difference with the Mid Engine 914 vs the 911?

Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:38 am

I've been wondering how much difference the mid-engine makes in the 914 vs the rear-engine 911?

I mean, the 911 has a 220lb engine behind the rear wheels with a 100lb transaxle mostly in front of it. Spinning that 180 degrees in the 914 moves that center of gravity a little bit in front of the rear wheels, but how much difference does that translate into in handling.

Doesn't the 914 still exhibit a tendency to oversteer? I ask as someone who has never driven either and hasn't drive an old beetle in a couple decades.

Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:55 am

914s are wider lower and with a longer wheelbase than the 911 and weigh much less.
The 914-4 understeers, the 914-6 with the extra 150 or so lbs oversteers. The factory made an adjustment with sway parts to make both cars more neutral. 914-4 15mm sway bar front 16mm sway bar rear, 914-6 16mm bar first 15mm bar rear
When the 914 finally breaks loose it spins around in a circle, the 911 goes off the track rear end first

nydj66 wrote: I've been wondering how much difference the mid-engine makes in the 914 vs the rear-engine 911?

I mean, the 911 has a 220lb engine behind the rear wheels with a 100lb transaxle mostly in front of it. Spinning that 180 degrees in the 914 moves that center of gravity a little bit in front of the rear wheels, but how much difference does that translate into in handling.

Doesn't the 914 still exhibit a tendency to oversteer? I ask as someone who has never driven either and hasn't drive an old beetle in a couple decades.

Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:09 pm

I owned a '75 914 1.8 and now own an '84 911. Let me say this - the 914 was no very impressive in any way. My old Miata with factory R-package suspension and wider wheels handled much much better. Sold the 914 after about 9 months of ownership, right before the prices really took off. Don't miss it all that much. 911 has much wider factory wheels (Fuchs) and handles far far better. I pushed it pretty hard on the twisties and the heavy butt just made it stay in place. Altogether 911 is far superior imho.

Tue Nov 27, 2018 8:38 am

Please remember that the 914 is a car of the early 70s and the Miata and 911 progressed into the 90s and 2000s

For what it was, the 914 was the superior sports car to its competition, fiat 124 MGB, Datsun Z alfa Spyder, fiat 850, fiat x19, triumph, and all of the American crap at the time

Synchromesh wrote: I owned a '75 914 1.8 and now own an '84 911. Let me say this - the 914 was no very impressive in any way. My old Miata with factory R-package suspension and wider wheels handled much much better. Sold the 914 after about 9 months of ownership, right before the prices really took off. Don't miss it all that much. 911 has much wider factory wheels (Fuchs) and handles far far better. I pushed it pretty hard on the twisties and the heavy butt just made it stay in place. Altogether 911 is far superior imho.

Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:22 am

Some simple upgrades to a 914-4 suspension, tires and hp (120)and the 914 will out corner a 911 or Miata easy. Done it on track events as they pass me on the straights but I pass them on the twistys.

Sat Dec 22, 2018 1:29 am

The 914/6 out performed the 911 back in the day that should say a lot .

Sat Dec 22, 2018 9:10 am

And the 916 killed them all, too bad they could not afford to make it and sell it, only 11 prototypes were made.

andreas5bmw wrote: The 914/6 out performed the 911 back in the day that should say a lot .

Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:41 am

Not sure if there's any interest in this thread... but here goes.
I recently bought a track only 914. T4 engine, side shift, S & X gears in the trans. It is a fully prepped race car with roughly 160 hp and approx 1800 lbs.
It still needs tuning to get it acclimated to sea level but is getting closer.
I also have a '74 911 which is mostly stock, but well sorted suspension and brakes. This car is street legal, but I do track it at DE type events. I run R comp tires on both cars when on track.
The handling dynamics of these cars is very different. The 914 is more like a go kart. You can shift, brake, pretty much anything you want in turns. Things you'd never get away with in a 911. The 914 is very light feeling in the steering, a softer brake pedal feel (still has the regulator for rears), but since it's so light it stops like a beast. A truly fun car to drive. Very nimble and forgiving.
The 911 takes much more preparation going into turns. Braking should be done in a straight line, trail braking done very carefully, trailing throttle oversteer can be a very helpful tool to rotate the car around tight turns, but can also get you pointing the wrong way in a hurry. When you use those tools you have to be quick back on the throttle to get it to "squat" and bite when you've got it pointing where you want to go. I've driven my 911 for so long I've gotten used to these characteristics and can use them to great advantage, especially in the rain. When it's wet I can keep pace with cars with twice my hp. I haven't had the 914 out in the wet yet so I can't comment on it's handling in those conditions.
So, there is my comparison. They're both great, but very different. If you're trying to choose which to buy, the economics of the 914 are pretty obviously better, but the 911 is legendary in its look, feel and well deserved reputation.

Thu Jul 25, 2019 11:57 am

very excellent comparison

CFreeborn wrote: Not sure if there's any interest in this thread... but here goes.
I recently bought a track only 914. T4 engine, side shift, S & X gears in the trans. It is a fully prepped race car with roughly 160 hp and approx 1800 lbs.
It still needs tuning to get it acclimated to sea level but is getting closer.
I also have a '74 911 which is mostly stock, but well sorted suspension and brakes. This car is street legal, but I do track it at DE type events. I run R comp tires on both cars when on track.
The handling dynamics of these cars is very different. The 914 is more like a go kart. You can shift, brake, pretty much anything you want in turns. Things you'd never get away with in a 911. The 914 is very light feeling in the steering, a softer brake pedal feel (still has the regulator for rears), but since it's so light it stops like a beast. A truly fun car to drive. Very nimble and forgiving.
The 911 takes much more preparation going into turns. Braking should be done in a straight line, trail braking done very carefully, trailing throttle oversteer can be a very helpful tool to rotate the car around tight turns, but can also get you pointing the wrong way in a hurry. When you use those tools you have to be quick back on the throttle to get it to "squat" and bite when you've got it pointing where you want to go. I've driven my 911 for so long I've gotten used to these characteristics and can use them to great advantage, especially in the rain. When it's wet I can keep pace with cars with twice my hp. I haven't had the 914 out in the wet yet so I can't comment on it's handling in those conditions.
So, there is my comparison. They're both great, but very different. If you're trying to choose which to buy, the economics of the 914 are pretty obviously better, but the 911 is legendary in its look, feel and well deserved reputation.