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tesarst Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:09 pm

Hi Everyone!

I have been browsing this wonderful board for a while and gathered a ton of information, so first up let me thank all of you for being an amazing community.

This is my first post, so please feel free to call me out on any errors that I will inevitably make.

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1988 super Hightop 1.9TD AAZ renovation

State soon after purchase



About a month ago I bought this 1988 Transporter (German import) with a 1.9TD AAZ swapped in and a massive high top. I intend to renovate it and turn it into a vehicle that I could take for long trips and live in for months or possibly couple of years. I'd also like it to be able to go into mild off-road, and be reliable enough to be off grid for at least couple of weeks in a row.

Pictures from before I removed the bumpers are very poor quality, but the van came with bumpers on! :)



The interior that came with it already had some custom cabinets, sink, and Reimo-made storage above the cab (at least I'm assuming it was made by Reimo with the hightop, as it looked professional). In order to get to know the van from inside out, I started removing stuff, and ended up stripping the van to bare bones.

Current state of things (as of writing this post)



Only thing I have not touched yet is the brake system, and I pray I won't have to, although the original owner mentioned something about a leak and loss of pressure in the brake pedal. I couldn't find any brake fluid leaks yet, but I wasn't really looking hard.



The engine comes (I believe) from a 1995 Passat, and is a 1.9TD AAZ.




There is some standard-issue rust and a huge dent above the rear right wheel, which was patched up with up to two inches of bondo. I'll be replacing both rear wheel arch panels and the driver side rocker panel, which is also in a poor shape. Biggest visible rot is behind the drivers seat, where a diesel heater used to be.

There are few weird things (at least to me) about this van that I could't find reliable answers for by googling and I am hoping some good soul here might have answers... I have no experience with vehicle renovation, so figuring out stuff about parts I don't even know names of is proving to be difficult.

Funky coolant lines



I removed the things at the bottom of the picture above from the engine bay because they did not seem to be doing anything. When I removed the fuel filter, it turned out to be full of vegetable oil. So apparently the AAZ is not this vans first transplant. The filter was not connected to anything, but had a makeshift coil around it, which was connected to the cooling system parallel with the engine.



If anybody has any input to why removing the coil might cause any problems, I am all ears! I am also curious why there is an engine bypass on the coolant lines? Should it even be there? (It is very hard to take pictures of what's going on down there, hence the diagram).

Disconnected thingy



The picture above is a part just under the turbo, and I just couldn't figure out what it is and what it does.. but more importantly, why is the small fuzzy line just hanging there? There is a small screw covering the end of it, presumably to prevent crud coming in, since it literally just hangs under the engine... I bet anybody with any engine experience will laugh at me for asking this, but I don't even know exactly what to type into google to get anywhere close to getting answers..

Expansion tanks on a diesel tank?
This will probably also sound silly to anyone with more than 0 experience with vehicle mechanics, but is it safe to remove the fuel evaporation system? The thing is, while the expansion tanks were still present in the front wheel wells, they came completely disconnected. There is also definitely no charcoal canister or infrastructure for it in place, so I intend to reconnect the expansion tanks to the main fuel tank in a standard way, and then connect the evaporation tubes to each other.. I can see how there could be some pressure buildup in that system, but I also don't want the van to reek of diesel... If there is a better solution to this, please shoot!

Again, please excuse me in case any of these questions have already been answered. I simply could not find the answers myself, and I am happy to edit the post if this is breaking any rules.

Future plans

I am ordering new panels and replacing the most banged up ones completely. There are also small areas and pieces that I hope to fix with just sheet metal or easy manufacturing. E.g. the door steps. Then I'd like to por-15 everything and paint the whole exterior of the van, and the parts of the interior that will have been de-rusted and repaired.
The passenger side trailing arm has a rusted-through spot in it, so probably remove it and try to patch it up with thick sheet metal.
The long coolant lines have to be re-done to remove the branches that used to serve the weird coil that didn't seem to serve any useful purpose anymore.
The fuel tank has to be re-sealed and put back.
The power steering lines need to be replaced (probably with the rubber version), because they are in a horrible state. At the time of purchase, I didn't even know the van had power steering - Only later after removing the steering wheel column I discovered that everything is in place, only the pump belt is missing. This might have been done intentionally though, because the lines are very likely to be leaking.
There is no muffler right now, so that needs to be taken care of.
One of the windows in the high-top was broken, and while trying to remove it I completely destroyed it, so now I am trying to find someone who would sell a hinged Seitz S4 500x300 window in Vancouver, BC.
The dashboard had various holes and improvements done to it, so I'd like to restore it to as close to the original look as I am able.
The van has a skylight in the original cab ceiling. Not sure if I wanna keep it and make it nice somehow or block the hole off and carpet over it yet.
Some of the window seals need to be replaced, all the windows and doors put back in.
Add house battery, solar, inverter, shore power plug and all that stuff that comes with it.
Soundproof, insulate, carpet or cover with luan wood.
Build a bed, storage space under and above it, cabinets and stuff. Secondary slide-out bed above the cab. Redo the kitchen area full-camper style - sink with water faucet, propane stove, propane tank inside (no sure what size yet).
Try to retrieve the diesel heater. It was only blowing cool air, but I hope the problem was with the fuel pump serving it, and not the actual heater.
If there are any money left in my budget at the end of all of this, it would be pretty awesome to put a lift-up kit on and add some bigger wheels, but being realistic, that is probably not going to happen during this run.


I hope to keep updating this thread with my progress and will do my best to keep any noobie questions to absolute minimum!

Alaskaberrys Thu Nov 15, 2018 2:20 am

Welcome! (to the madness 8) )

Looks like you’ve jumped right in!

tesarst wrote:
....
I removed the things at the bottom of the picture above from the engine bay because they did not seem to be doing anything. When I removed the fuel filter, it turned out to be full of vegetable oil. So apparently the AAZ is not this vans first transplant. The filter was not connected to anything, but had a makeshift coil around it, which was connected to the cooling system parallel with the engine.



If anybody has any input to why removing the coil might cause any problems, I am all ears! I am also curious why there is an engine bypass on the coolant lines? Should it even be there? (It is very hard to take pictures of what's going on down there, hence the diagram).

....


I’m inclined to think they ran vegetable oil through your AAZ, which has to be warmed to be kept fluid. The setups I know of have a dual feed - diesel to start then after the engines hot - and coolant is warming the filter full of veggie oil - switching over. I’ve got no experience beyond that with this setup up however.

tesarst wrote: ....


The picture above is a part just under the turbo, and I just couldn't figure out what it is and what it does.. but more importantly, why is the small fuzzy line just hanging there? There is a small screw covering the end of it, presumably to prevent crud coming in, since it literally just hangs under the engine... I bet anybody with any engine experience will laugh at me for asking this, but I don't even know exactly what to type into google to get anywhere close to getting answers..

...


I’m a newb myself on the AAZ and diesels, but I believe that should be connected to a cylindrical device (called an LDA) on your fuel pump up top - I couldn’t tell you how it works other than it preportions fuel and the amount your turbo gate opens and “boosts” your engine performance. I believe without it the benefit of a turbo pretty much disappears. There is a lot of info in the FAQ section and some pretty knowledgeable folks too, they’ve taught me alot about my AAZ here.

AAZ info and has some links to other VW diesel forums -
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0

ZsZ Thu Nov 15, 2018 2:35 am

tesarst wrote: ....


The picture above is a part just under the turbo, and I just couldn't figure out what it is and what it does.. but more importantly, why is the small fuzzy line just hanging there? There is a small screw covering the end of it, presumably to prevent crud coming in, since it literally just hangs under the engine... I bet anybody with any engine experience will laugh at me for asking this, but I don't even know exactly what to type into google to get anywhere close to getting answers..

...


Not sure what turbo is it, but that wastegate can be externally regulated by supplying pressure to that blocked hose to keep closed to higher pressure.
In this current setup boost is raised as the wastegate membrane have to work against a closed chamber. Its possible to not open at all, and thats not good.

jimf909 Thu Nov 15, 2018 5:23 am

Let the fun begin!!!

Thanks for posting. Enjoy!

HBB Thu Nov 15, 2018 3:18 pm

I would strongly recommend coming up with some sort of cover/shield for the timing belt if you are going to drive that thing.

The plugged hose to the wastegate actuator may be a remnant of a fuel economy system. I can't recall what VW called it off the top of my head, but it was some sort of "eco" whatever. You can likely find photos of similar wastegate configurations online and do some sleuthing to figure out what you have. A boost gauge is a good idea, and an EGT gauge is a great idea.

While WVO can be fine if done properly, it seems more common for engines run on WVO to end up with injection pump and injector problems.

tesarst Thu Nov 15, 2018 4:40 pm

Alaskaberrys wrote:
I’m inclined to think they ran vegetable oil through your AAZ, which has to be warmed to be kept fluid. The setups I know of have a dual feed - diesel to start then after the engines hot - and coolant is warming the filter full of veggie oil - switching over. I’ve got no experience beyond that with this setup up however.


Thanks for the info! I'm just removing the whole thing anyways, but its nice to know why it was in place at all. Still a bit worried I'll have some sort of coolant pressure problems or what not.

Alaskaberrys wrote:
I’m a newb myself on the AAZ and diesels, but I believe that should be connected to a cylindrical device (called an LDA) on your fuel pump up top - I couldn’t tell you how it works other than it preportions fuel and the amount your turbo gate opens and “boosts” your engine performance. I believe without it the benefit of a turbo pretty much disappears. There is a lot of info in the FAQ section and some pretty knowledgeable folks too, they’ve taught me alot about my AAZ here.


The turbo is already connected to the LDA directly, not through the actuator, visible in the picture below... I hope that's what it's supposed to be like :D



HBB wrote: I would strongly recommend coming up with some sort of cover/shield for the timing belt if you are going to drive that thing.


Working on getting one atm, thanks for spotting it!

HBB wrote:
The plugged hose to the wastegate actuator may be a remnant of a fuel economy system. I can't recall what VW called it off the top of my head, but it was some sort of "eco" whatever. You can likely find photos of similar wastegate configurations online and do some sleuthing to figure out what you have. A boost gauge is a good idea, and an EGT gauge is a great idea.

Thank you so much for that information! It put me on the right track. The system you are talking about is called Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR), and whoever was doing the switch decided to leave it out, hence the loose hose. Also thanks for the gauge ideas, sounds like a pretty cheap and useful thing to make use of it.
This thread: http://www.brick-yard.co.uk/forum/late-aaz-wiring-help_topic54399.html has some pictures that helped a lot.


Work for today: taking the radiator out to get to the rust behind it. Gonna have to grind the bolts off because 3 out of 4 of the clips that are supposed to hold the nuts in place gave in to rust. Already tried cutting out a piece of the bumper metal to get to the nuts, but it's still very hard to keep the nuts from moving. Grinding the bolts off ends up being much faster, and in the end easier too, since there is no need to weld the bumper up after. Thread that has been very helpful during this effort: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=253132.
So to anyone having the same problem - don't bother cutting a hole in your bumper, grind the bolt heads off! You will be replacing the clips and nuts anyway, so might as well get new bolts too.

HBB Fri Nov 16, 2018 12:48 pm

No intercooler?

9.5isCanadian Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:02 pm

Ha this is excellent!
I'll be following this thread for sure as I tried to buy this very unit and was told that there was a deal done already.

Glad it went to a good home.

Keep the pictures and progress coming :!:

My high top is waiting patiently for me to get at it.

Owen

tesarst Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:31 am

Finally got around to uploading some updates of my progress, which has been rather slow so far, but I devoted most of the xmas holidays to the restoration and I finally checked off some major sources of pain the butt.

Slowly and surely I am ridding the van of all rust that I can find.

1 - Sliding door rail

The rail was held on by some welds on the top left and right corners, but the panel behind it was completely rotten. The rust went all the way from the exterior panel into the interior one. So I had to remove all the welds connecting the rail to the panel, cut out the whole section behind it on the exterior panel, and a smaller piece in the interior panel. I had to cut another hole in the interior panel to get to one of the welds holding the rail in place as well.

This metal was extremely thin and I have a flux core, so definitely not the best combo, and I never welded before. Probably should have left this job after doing some easier welds, because it took me ages to get it right, and the welds on the interior panels are still rubbish, but I got tired of fixing it and its on the inside and will not be visible so I stopped caring.

I took some of the pictures on my shitty phone, sorry for the poor quality.

Behind the sliding door rail


The sliding door rail removed


Rusty metal cut out


New metal welded in and covered with rust protector



2 - Psg side trailing arm mount

This gave me nightmares when I first discovered it. The whole area around the support was disintegrating. Nevermind the massive hole in the trailing arm itself - I'll just have to replace the thing, but repairing the mount was a major pain in the butt.

Firstly I cut out the panel covering it to get a better look. There was a massive hole in the floor of the mount and the backside. Fortunately, the connection to the crossmember was still solid, so hopefully this should not happen. The drivers side looks to be in a much better shape, although still rusty, but I haven't dug into that yet.

I also had to cut out part of the metal separating the inside of the mount from the wheel arch, since it was also falling apart. First I welded in the backsides and the wheel arch piece. Then the 'floor' plate. I welded this plate over the hole that was there, because I could not get in there with a grinder.

I had to build up a bit of a ridge to weld the cover panel on, because there was a large gap between the mount and the panel where they should be meeting. I just did a very bulky weld and then ground it into the right shape.

I used 16 gauge sheet metal for all repairs in this area. The original floor and backside pieces may have been even a bit thicker, but since there was pretty much nothing before my repairs I am not worried that it will not hold it together... At least until someone with proper tools and skills can get to it.

I drowned the whole thing in por-15, and then sprayed the crap out of it with a rust protective paint to make sure even the spots I could not reach with a brush and por-15 were covered. I definitely did more than 3 coats in total.

Trailing arm mount - before


Trailing arm mount - after


Trailing arm mount - cover panel welded in place


3 - Rear wheel arch and panel

This whole area was just falling apart. These 3 things are probably all connected - water was seeping in through behind the sliding door rail, dripping down on the top of the wheel arch and then going into the trailing arm mount. Even most of the actual arch itself was gone, so manufacturing all the pieces with almost no point of reference was very time consuming, especially because I had 0 previous experience with metal working.

I had to remove a piece of metal from top the arch, and most of the back side. I smoothed out the joint between the new and original metal with body filler, mainly to seal the weld properly since I was spot welding it. Then drowned everything in por-15, leaving a strip of bare metal at the edge for the mounting lip.

I just glued on (3m body adhesive) the mounting lip which had to be manufactured (the replacement wheel arch panel doesn't have one). The glue is nice though. It feels very solid, and it sealed the whole thing very nicely. I intend to use the same adhesive to glue the panel in place. Only the top edge will have to be welded because I don't want the panels to overlap.

I had one failed attempt in gluing the lip on, because I tried making my own two-compartment applicator gun and it was not producing the correct mixture ratio, so the glue did not harden. I had to bite the bullet and get the C$100 two-compartment applicator gun :/ But at least now it works really well, and is certainly easier to operate.

I used this video as my main reference.

Rear wheel arch - before


Cutouts


New arch piece welded in


Mounting lip clamped on while the adhesive is curing


4 - Towards the front face

During the main job - the area around the rear wheel - there was a lot of waiting for por-15 or paint to dry, body filler to harden, or the adhesive to cure, so I started moving towards the front of the van with the repairs whenever I could not work on the main task. There was a ton of little things along the way - little holes in the floor, the engine bay and the front wheel arch, which I either welded or bondoed.

Getting rid of little spots in the floor


The corners of the windshield channel were rusty, but I have no idea how I would manufacture those pieces so I just used body filler and tons of por15 again. Someone before me already replaced this whole portion once, but it was not painted at all it seems.

There was a ton of grease from underneath, but then only bare metal. The top was covered in silicon, and there was some metallic looking filler covering the weld, but the rust got under it. Unfortunately I forgot to take a 'before' picture of it.

There was a lot of bubbled up paint all over the front face, so I had to sand all of that down. There was also a lot of spots that just started developing rust behind where the radiator normally is. I also removed the gear shifter (manual) and gas pedal to be able to get there properly.

There was a foam padding around the box in which the shifter stick meets the rod going back to the transmission. I could not find any info about this, but I guess it's mainly soundproofing? If anybody has any tips on what to use to replace this foam with (I had to rip it out to get to the rust and it was rubbish anyway), I would love to know what the options are.

Front face - all bubbled up paint stripped


Front face - after cleaning, body filler and rust paint



All of this will definitely need some more love before it can be painted, but I want to do all the final body filler and sanding at once when everything else is done.

It also feels like for every rusty spot i fix, I find 2 new ones! The learning curve does not seem to be flattening either, and I don't even remember when my hands did not have any black spots of por-15 on them. It's certainly much more work than I expected.. or even that I expected to not expect. I hope all this work is gonna be worth it and the van actually lasts for a while :D

zuhandenheit Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:06 am

It looks like you're doing really good work!

But I'm concerned about the por15. I and many others have had adhesion issues -- both of the POR and of whatever coating is applied over it. Maybe you already have a lot of experience with it and trust it, in which case, I don't want to contribute to your worries. But if you have not used it in bodywork before, I think you should reconsider. At this stage it would be easy to remove with a wire wheel.

I did a lot of body repairs myself without access to a paint gun, and so used an aerosol but 2-part epoxy primer. It worked very well. I've removed both epoxy primer and por15, and in every instance the epoxy had far better adhesion. Under the best conditions (rust metal), por15 adheres fairly well. But very often, sometimes for no apparent reason, it will peel off in sheets.

?Waldo? Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:22 am

tesarst wrote: Expansion tanks on a diesel tank?
This will probably also sound silly to anyone with more than 0 experience with vehicle mechanics, but is it safe to remove the fuel evaporation system? The thing is, while the expansion tanks were still present in the front wheel wells, they came completely disconnected. There is also definitely no charcoal canister or infrastructure for it in place, so I intend to reconnect the expansion tanks to the main fuel tank in a standard way, and then connect the evaporation tubes to each other.. I can see how there could be some pressure buildup in that system, but I also don't want the van to reek of diesel... If there is a better solution to this, please shoot!

The stock diesels never had any charcoal canister. Diesel evaporates so much slower than gasoline that it is not needed. The expansion tanks are not strictly needed but if you fill the tank full on a hot day and they park the van, there is a good chance that the fuel will expand enough to overflow the tank if the expansion tanks are not fitted.

You cannot simply connect the evaporation tubes together. The tank MUST vent. If it does not have an open vent, then in normal operation, the tank will actually implode and be ruined as the fuel is pumped out of the tank and no air is allowed in to replace it. The stock diesel system just leaves one of the tubes open to atmosphere.

tesarst Mon Jan 07, 2019 1:20 am

zuhandenheit wrote:
But I'm concerned about the por15. I and many others have had adhesion issues -- both of the POR and of whatever coating is applied over it. Maybe you already have a lot of experience with it and trust it, in which case, I don't want to contribute to your worries. But if you have not used it in bodywork before, I think you should reconsider. At this stage it would be easy to remove with a wire wheel.

I did a lot of body repairs myself without access to a paint gun, and so used an aerosol but 2-part epoxy primer. It worked very well. I've removed both epoxy primer and por15, and in every instance the epoxy had far better adhesion. Under the best conditions (rust metal), por15 adheres fairly well. But very often, sometimes for no apparent reason, it will peel off in sheets.

Thanks for the info! I already noticed the peeling of in certain places, like in the wheel well. I am somewhat correlating this with places where I skipped the proper preparation though - Normally I rough up the surface with 80 or 120 grit sandpaper, clean with the por15 cleaner and degreaser and then apply por15 metal prep. Also generally I only use por15 in places that will not be visible or heavily weathered.. apart from the trailing arm. I'll definitely be keeping a close eye on it though, and at the first sign of problems I'll replace it with a 2 part epoxy like you suggest.

?Waldo? wrote:
The stock diesels never had any charcoal canister. Diesel evaporates so much slower than gasoline that it is not needed. The expansion tanks are not strictly needed but if you fill the tank full on a hot day and they park the van, there is a good chance that the fuel will expand enough to overflow the tank if the expansion tanks are not fitted.

You cannot simply connect the evaporation tubes together. The tank MUST vent. If it does not have an open vent, then in normal operation, the tank will actually implode and be ruined as the fuel is pumped out of the tank and no air is allowed in to replace it. The stock diesel system just leaves one of the tubes open to atmosphere.

That is exactly the kind of stuff I was worried about and knew I would not think of! Thank you. Seems so obvious now. And it explains why the expansion tanks had the vapor lines missing. I will probably still add them and let them vent somewhere safe where they won't get clogged up.

Gizmoman Mon Jan 07, 2019 5:26 am

The fuzzy hose with the bolt in the end would go to a T fitting in the hose going to the LDA. It would open up the wastegate on the turbo by pressurizing the canister which has a diaphragm inside - typically when it gets close to 12 psi.

That said, turbo pressure is also limited by how much fuel you are feeding with your right foot. You are probably fine leaving it as is. You could remove the fuzzy hose and cap it with a tight fitting cap/plug just to tidy it up.

The cabinet with the live edge slab counter-top adds a nice homey touch. If it were me, I'd take a router to the underside and remove a much weight as possible. Nice work on the body repair. I have found the AAZ is a very reliable engine - good find.

chrissev2 Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:15 am

I can see a few issues with the engine set up. Firstly, the battery is not where it should be. You want to move it to the back of the van, and put it behind the coolant reservoir (you will have to weld in a battery tray).

Secondly, as another poster has pointed out, cover the timing belt. Also probably a good idea to replace the belt and tensioner (has to be done every 60,000KM anyway). The AAZ is an interference motor. So you don't want the belt to break or slip a tooth.

I see that the turbo is turned the wrong way around. When you use an AAZ in the weird tipped over position that is necessary for the Vanagon, you should use the manifold set up used on the 1.6 TD motor from the European diesel Vanagons. I believe it is a "JX" motor? Reason being, when the turbo is set up high like that, and tipped backwards, oil can build up in the turbo, and then drain into the manifold. This can result in your engine revving out of control and destroying itself, as it gets a continuous oil supply from the turbo (diesels can run on engine oil). If you flip it upside down and have it at the base of the engine, below the air intake manifold, then the oil from the turbo cannot backfeed into the manifold. Turbos have oil bearings, so they get a constant supply of engine oil when running.

Add a SAAB intercooler and fan set up. You can put the intercooler into the left hand side engine compartment, directly behind the left tail light. You get this wonderful flow of fresh, cool air directly down the D pillar from the vents on the side of the Vanagon. Add a fan that runs all the time, to pull that cool air through the intercooler, and your turbo diesel will run much better, have more power, and have lower EGTS.

Oil: I don't get to see the oil pan set up in these pics. I am assuming they used the 1.6TD pan from the JX motor? If they did not, you want to address that. The standard AAZ pan will not work in the Vanagon tipped over set up. Also make sure that the oil check stick (which looks like the Passat stick) has been modified to be used in this tipped over format. It won't register the right fill line otherwise.

Cooling pipes: They appear to be 1.5 non turbo pipes. These work with the AAZ, however you might want to consider replacing them with the more robust after market pipe set up.

?Waldo? Mon Jan 07, 2019 12:33 pm

chrissev2 wrote: I can see a few issues with the engine set up. Firstly, the battery is not where it should be. You want to move it to the back of the van, and put it behind the coolant reservoir (you will have to weld in a battery tray).

It's better for the battery for it NOT to be in the engine compartment. Short runs for the glow plugs and starter are good but I sure wouldn't go through the effort to weld in the stock diesel vanagon battery try. There are quite a few other options that are better. Even the stock gasser location is fine if the starter cranks fast.

Quote: Secondly, as another poster has pointed out, cover the timing belt. Also probably a good idea to replace the belt and tensioner (has to be done every 60,000KM anyway). The AAZ is an interference motor. So you don't want the belt to break or slip a tooth.

Having the proper timing covers is very smart.

Quote: I see that the turbo is turned the wrong way around. When you use an AAZ in the weird tipped over position that is necessary for the Vanagon, you should use the manifold set up used on the 1.6 TD motor from the European diesel Vanagons. I believe it is a "JX" motor? Reason being, when the turbo is set up high like that, and tipped backwards, oil can build up in the turbo, and then drain into the manifold. This can result in your engine revving out of control and destroying itself, as it gets a continuous oil supply from the turbo (diesels can run on engine oil). If you flip it upside down and have it at the base of the engine, below the air intake manifold, then the oil from the turbo cannot backfeed into the manifold. Turbos have oil bearings, so they get a constant supply of engine oil when running.

The stock JX manifold and turbo location is worse for a few reasons, e.g. more exposed, worse drainage, funky inlet hose routing, more parts that are not available in North America, etc... It also tips the stock JX turbo the exact same mount and for whatever reason VW never bothered to correct the oil supply and return angles and they are tipped over. You're just as likely to experience runaway with the stock JX parts as you are with his current setup. I like to clock the center cartridge in either setup, but it is easier to do with the stock AAZ manifold location.

chrissev2 Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:47 am

Quote: It's better for the battery for it NOT to be in the engine compartment. Short runs for the glow plugs and starter are good but I sure wouldn't go through the effort to weld in the stock diesel vanagon battery try. There are quite a few other options that are better. Even the stock gasser location is fine if the starter cranks fast.

- The battery in the gasoline vanagon is under the passenger seat. In the diesel, it is at the back, behind the coolant reservoir. If you look at any stock diesel or turbo diesel Vanagon, you will always find the battery in that location. VW built a number of different variations of the diesel and turbo diesel Vanagon. We only got the 1.6 NA diesel in North America, so the battery location is unusual for us. But it does the battery no harm to have it in that location.

The reason for the move of the battery is pretty simple: The diesel uses all of the battery power when it is being started. It pulls a lot of amps to run the glow plugs, and then it uses a high torque starter to get it going due to the high compression. If you run a long battery cable, you heat up the cable and waste amps, and it puts a lot of stress on the battery to get the diesel started. Once the motor is running, it uses almost no battery power at all (just 12 volts to the fuel cut of solenoid).


Quote: The stock JX manifold and turbo location is worse for a few reasons, e.g. more exposed, worse drainage, funky inlet hose routing, more parts that are not available in North America, etc... It also tips the stock JX turbo the exact same mount and for whatever reason VW never bothered to correct the oil supply and return angles and they are tipped over. You're just as likely to experience runaway with the stock JX parts as you are with his current setup. I like to clock the center cartridge in either setup, but it is easier to do with the stock AAZ manifold location.

There isn't really a stock JX turbo. VW used the KKK turbo on the JX motor, and used either the Garrett or KKK turbo on the AAZ. VW didn't build either of these turbos themselves, they just bought them from third party manufacturers.

With the KKK turbo, you can reorient the oil drain so that it drains downward at enough of an angle, so that oil will not build up in the turbo, but only if the KKK turbo is located beneath the exhaust manifold. That set up is only possible with the JX exhaust manifold. The Garrett turbo cannot be reoriented enough to be used with the JX manifold.

The turbo supply and drain lines are available to be produced by any shop that produces metric fittings. I found one in Scarborough Ontario and had my lines produced there. The drain line is not high pressure, and so you can just use a regular rubber line with metric fittings. The feed line is high pressure and must be a metal line. There are no other special parts that you need for this set up. You can use stock AAZ parts for everything else, and the JX manifold.

When the AAZ is installed in a Jetta or a Golf, it sits upright. The turbo will drain completely in that orientation. When it is in a Vanagon, it is tipped backward. The turbo will not drain. You end up with oil in your exhaust, smoke, and often the engine will "diesel" while it is running, as the oil will get into the intake manifold and run the motor out of control. This has happened to a number of people on this forum, which is why I am pointing it out.

The only correct method of mounting a turbo on an AAZ motor for use in a Vanagon, is by mounting it beneath the exhaust manifold, and reorienting it so that the oil drain faces downward at enough of an angle, that the oil will drain out of the turbo. The only turbo that can be used in this orientation is the KKK.

The turbos used on these engines are oil lubricated, and the lubrication is a "controlled leak" which means that the turbo bearings leak oil all of the time, down into the sump at the base of the turbo. That oil is then gravity drained out of the turbo and back into the engine, either through the threaded hole in the block, as stock AAZ, or into the oil sump through the threaded hole in the oil pan as in the diesel Vanagon. The oil draining out of the turbo is not under pressure and it is a gravity drain. If the oil drain is not pointed downwards at enough of an angle that the turbo will drain with gravity only, then it will not drain, and oil builds up in the turbo.

That is all you are really doing with the Vanagon turbo set up. Create a gravity drain so the turbo drains well.

?Waldo? Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:18 am

You seem to have missed all of the points to my post. I am familiar with the stock diesel battery location and the stock gasser location and the why of it. Being in the heat cycles of the engine compartment is decidedly worse for the battery. If the starter cranks fast in either location, then the battery is accomplishing the necessary task and will last longer in the stock gasser location then if moved to the engine compartment where it will be subjected to the damaging heat cycles. It certainly isn't worth the effort of installing the battery tray in a non-diesel. If considering doing the work of installing a battery tray in the engine compartment, then the OP would get a lot more bang for buck by simply moving the battery under the rear bench seat or making a battery box for over the trans (which I've done several times). The result would be the same short run for starter and glow plugs without the downsides of the heat cycles in the engine compartment.

As far as the turbo goes, yup I'm also familiar with each of the turbos used on each of the 1.6TD engines and each of the turbos used on the AAZ and the differences in the installs. KKK (Borg Warner) is the company, not the turbo model. The JX uses the K14. VW used several other KKK and Garrett models on the 1.6TD (K24, T3) and on the AAZ (K03, T2). The OP's turbo appears to be the KKK K03.

The JX uses the same exhaust manifold that was used on the Quantum 1.6TD and Audi 1.6TD engines. With the Quantum/Audi install the turbo (in that case it was always a K24 or T3) is installed with the supply at 12:00 and the return at 6:00 as is known to be best. With the Vanagon installation, VW simply tipped the manifold and turbo the extra 35° (stock Quantum angle is 15°, stock Vanagon is 50° - 50-15=35). Garrett states that for proper turbo drainage, the supply/return fittings should be installed within 15° of vertical.
Interestingly enough, in the stock JX Vanagon installation, VW did not bother to clock the center section of the turbo and the oil supply is between 10:00-11:00 and the drain is at 4:00-5:00 just the same as the AAZ turbo on the OP's engine. It is easier to clock the AAZ turbo in the AAZ location than it is to clock the JX turbo. It is certainly much easier for the OP to use the turbo, intake, exhaust, etc, etc... and fitting the JX components that are hard to source is a lot of work without benefit.

Quote: The only correct method of mounting a turbo on an AAZ motor for use in a Vanagon, is by mounting it beneath the exhaust manifold, and reorienting it so that the oil drain faces downward at enough of an angle, that the oil will drain out of the turbo. The only turbo that can be used in this orientation is the KKK.

Every bit of that is incorrect. The center section of the turbo can be rotated to 12:00 supply 6:00 drain on any turbo (although the Garrett VNT's are harder) and it is actually EASIER to do that with the turbo in the stock AAZ location than in the JX location where the supply fitting actually hits the manifold before the turbo is properly clocked.

Both of your suggestions (moving battery and completely reworking turbo, intake, exhaust, etc...) would require a lot of parts (many of which are JX specific and relatively unavailable in North America) and a lot of work that would result in a worse end product.

crazyvwvanman Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:42 am

I've installed stock AAZ engines with their stock turbo position and stock block drains with no drainage problems, in various Vanagons and Syncros. Complicate things if you feel the need but I haven't yet seen the need, after hundreds of thousands of miles on several AAZ conversions.

VW originally used a long fairly thin gauge battery cable and those 80-85 gas vans can suffer from too much starter voltage drop as a result. Starting with 86 models VW doubled the size of the battery cable and shortened the routing to the front seat battery box. With that huge improvement the front mounted battery works fine with diesel engines and starters in my experience.

An advantage of the rear pass side battery is it helps counter balance the leaned over engine that is weight biased to the driver side. But having it in the engine compartment can complicate things when other engine upgrades are involved.

Mark

chrissev2 Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:49 am

?Waldo? wrote: You seem to have missed all of the points to my post. I am familiar with the stock diesel battery location and the stock gasser location and the why of it. Being in the heat cycles of the engine compartment is decidedly worse for the battery. If the starter cranks fast in either location, then the battery is accomplishing the necessary task and will last longer in the stock gasser location then if moved to the engine compartment where it will be subjected to the damaging heat cycles. It certainly isn't worth the effort of installing the battery tray in a non-diesel. If considering doing the work of installing a battery tray in the engine compartment, then the OP would get a lot more bang for buck by simply moving the battery under the rear bench seat or making a battery box for over the trans (which I've done several times). The result would be the same short run for starter and glow plugs without the downsides of the heat cycles in the engine compartment.

As far as the turbo goes, yup I'm also familiar with each of the turbos used on each of the 1.6TD engines and each of the turbos used on the AAZ and the differences in the installs. KKK (Borg Warner) is the company, not the turbo model. The JX uses the K14. VW used several other KKK and Garrett models on the 1.6TD (K24, T3) and on the AAZ (K03, T2). The OP's turbo appears to be the KKK K03.

The JX uses the same exhaust manifold that was used on the Quantum 1.6TD and Audi 1.6TD engines. With the Quantum/Audi install the turbo (in that case it was always a K24 or T3) is installed with the supply at 12:00 and the return at 6:00 as is known to be best. With the Vanagon installation, VW simply tipped the manifold and turbo the extra 35° (stock Quantum angle is 15°, stock Vanagon is 50° - 50-15=35). Garrett states that for proper turbo drainage, the supply/return fittings should be installed within 15° of vertical.
Interestingly enough, in the stock JX Vanagon installation, VW did not bother to clock the center section of the turbo and the oil supply is between 10:00-11:00 and the drain is at 4:00-5:00 just the same as the AAZ turbo on the OP's engine. It is easier to clock the AAZ turbo in the AAZ location than it is to clock the JX turbo. It is certainly much easier for the OP to use the turbo, intake, exhaust, etc, etc... and fitting the JX components that are hard to source is a lot of work without benefit.

Quote: The only correct method of mounting a turbo on an AAZ motor for use in a Vanagon, is by mounting it beneath the exhaust manifold, and reorienting it so that the oil drain faces downward at enough of an angle, that the oil will drain out of the turbo. The only turbo that can be used in this orientation is the KKK.

Every bit of that is incorrect. The center section of the turbo can be rotated to 12:00 supply 6:00 drain on any turbo (although the Garrett VNT's are harder) and it is actually EASIER to do that with the turbo in the stock AAZ location than in the JX location where the supply fitting actually hits the manifold before the turbo is properly clocked.

Both of your suggestions (moving battery and completely reworking turbo, intake, exhaust, etc...) would require a lot of parts (many of which are JX specific and relatively unavailable in North America) and a lot of work that would result in a worse end product.

I can't agree with this as I've also tried it both ways. With the stock position of the turbo on the AAZ manifold, the turbo could not be rotated to give a proper draining position. The stock turbo drain line is not long enough to do that, and the exhaust manifold piping gets in the way of doing that.

Have a look at this pic here, which illustrates the situation with a Garrett turbo (scroll down to post #9):

http://vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php/topic,5888.0.html

I just went through this situation in installing an AAZ in a vanagon, and ran through all the options of how to properly drain the turbo. VW moved the turbo location, on all of its turbo diesel vanagons, using the under the manifold position offered by the JX manifold, seemingly for this very reason.

If you use the JX, you have a large amount of room to work with the turbo drain pipe. If you are using stock AAZ, you have the manifold on one side, and an exhaust manifold/pipe set up on the other, with very little room to move anything.

I did not have any issues with the supply fitting hitting the manifold when I set up my turbo with my JX manifold. I did have a lot of problems trying to use the AAZ manifold, for the reasons stated above, that being it was not possible to clear the manifold and exhaust piping, while also allowing for the right draining angle.

I think a lot of people now are just tossing the AAZs into these Vanagons, with the existing manifold set up, re-clocking the turbo as much as they are able to, and then saying "hey, it runs, it works" and letting it be. The problem is, you have a turbo that is not draining properly. You may well be able to run it for thousands of kilometers like that, without noticing much other than a bit of smoke in the exhaust and some oil consumption. But it's not really the correct way of doing it, and VW never did it like that.

So you're just setting up a hybrid system that seems to work.

I prefer copying the factory set up as much as I can.

chrissev2 Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:54 am

crazyvwvanman wrote: I've installed stock AAZ engines with their stock turbo position and stock block drains with no drainage problems, in various Vanagons and Syncros. Complicate things if you feel the need but I haven't yet seen the need, after hundreds of thousands of miles on several AAZ conversions.

VW originally used a long fairly thin gauge battery cable and those 80-85 gas vans can suffer from too much starter voltage drop as a result. Starting with 86 models VW doubled the size of the battery cable and shortened the routing to the front seat battery box. With that huge improvement the front mounted battery works fine with diesel engines and starters in my experience.

An advantage of the rear pass side battery is it helps counter balance the leaned over engine that is weight biased to the driver side. But having it in the engine compartment can complicate things when other engine upgrades are involved.

Mark

VW sold turbo diesel vanagons in Europe from 1979 to 1992. The battery was always located in the back. They also built a 1.7 normally aspirated diesel, also sold only in Europe. The battery was always in the back. I find it works better back there, due to the initial drain on the battery to run the glow plugs followed by the current requirements of the high torque starter. If you spend your time in warmer climates, you might not notice the difference, but in winter, you certainly do.



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