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Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:39 pm

Have a 1976 Baywindow campmobile bought to refurbish. Was running when I got it. Pressure check no pressure on number one cylinder. I pulled engine and found piston damaged and valve in head jammed and stuck and head damaged around valves. Engine block had been pride open from an obvious rebuild and because of this I was told it was cheaper for me to replace with a rebuild upright 1600cc with larger piston than rebuild the type 4 I have? Can someone advise me on this. Haven’t worked on a vw bus since I was 17. I’m 67 now HELP!

Mon Mar 18, 2019 10:13 pm

welcome. There is no easy drop in solution. You bought a 50 year old car where parts are hard to come by, and shops that work on them are even more rare.

Mon Mar 18, 2019 11:11 pm

Wow, welcome back to the VW world!

Lots of economics at play here…

The stock Type 4 engine outlasts and outperforms a stock Type 1 engine by a long shot, but it's more expensive to build and buy parts. Lifetime cost is almost identical.

The Type 1 aftermarket is flooded with crap, but there is no aftermarket for the Type4, so Type 4 parts will be harder to find though but usually higher in quality. We are in a nice point in bus history, because more manufacturers are seeing the benefit in reproducing Type 4 parts while later buses are going up in value. For examples, there are 100% brand new wiring harnesses, cylinder heads, camshafts/lifters, and fuel injectors all available with the click of a mouse.

The 1976 transaxle has gearing for a 2-liter Type 4 with 100 ft*lbs. of torque and 67 HP. The 1.6-liter Type 1 needs different gear ratios to operate properly, with it's 81 ft*lbs. of torque and horsepower currently undetectable by human technology.

Check out Craigslist and local VW clubs to see if anyone has a running Type 4. Even a long block would be fine, as the FI swap-over is very easy even from a carbureted donor engine. KentPS picked up a carbureted 1800cc engine on Craigslist to replace his 1700cc, so we stuck his 2-liter fuel injection on it, and he left me in the dust right after this picture as I was downshifting my Type 1. :lol:

Good luck with whichever route you go,
Robbie

Tue Mar 19, 2019 6:23 am

Thanks for your advice. I really think the gentleman that is doing the rebuild for me prefers the type 1s.

Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:56 am

I just finished the rebuild of my type 4 and I must say it has cost well over 3000 EUR in materials alone. That shocked me as I managed to rebuild my 6 cyl 4.2 Jag e-type engine for 1200 eur materials alone.
I did however find the build quality of type 4 super. Not sure about type 1.
Used all new heads, Mahle cylinders and pistons etc etc. Literally everything is new.

Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:58 am

1976 bus, right? Are you subject to smog laws? Here in California cars 1976 and newer must be inspected. It won't pass with the type 1 engine here. Since you live in Georgia, you might be able to use a type 1.

Be sure to build your replacement type 1 engine so that it has roughly the same power as your bus came with from the factory. That way, the tranny will be well matched.

If you do go with a type 1, be sure and do the research to understand the things that will need to be done to make it work right.

Tue Mar 19, 2019 12:14 pm

I would rebuild it as a Type 4 motor and not try for a conversion. I won't bore you with the details because there are hundreds of threads here discussing it already.

ALL of the folks here who have buses that they can rely on have faced these same challenges. Their perseverance and dedication have given them reliable buses. There is no quick or cheap way out unless you have Bill Gates wealth and can set up your own million dollar restoration shop with a crew of 20
.

Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:17 pm

Thanks for all of the information. As bad as I hate to say it keeping the type 4 seems the best in long run. It’s just where I live there are not many old hippies with vw buses and even fewer that will work on them. The mechanic trying to guide me away from type 4 rebuild because the block has some gouged areas on bottom at seam that he could slide a knife blade tip in and said unless block was redone it would leak oil under pressure. Don’t know where to take block to have it redone and what it would cost. Any suggestions?

Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:31 pm

I think that the block is available new? I will search it out
found it https://www.volkswagen-classic-parts.de/en/kurbelgehause-f91c5f.html
in here https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8711180&highlight=#8711180

Tue Mar 19, 2019 5:02 pm

2 grand for a type 4 block ouch

I'm a spectator fool typing things on the interwebs so...

I've read that the type 1 conversion involves some custom engine tins that are available (in fiberglass) to close the type 4 body cavity to the type 1 motor. I searched that about a year ago and thought I found some available though and not at a show stopping price either.

I've read that the type 1 conversion involves cutting 11mm (or something) off the end of the shaft pointing out of the transaxle where the pilot bearing goes, so the conversion is irreversible without redoing that trans part. This is the part of it that would give me pause.

Good luck whichever way you go and remember the most important part of all.... enjoy driving your bus around! :)

Tue Mar 19, 2019 5:46 pm

The case is probably scrap with that gap,
Depending on how you plan to use it,you may get lucky and find a running t4 for a couple of grand,a good rebuild will cost about 8 to 10 grand,a great rebuild skys the limit,

Tue Mar 19, 2019 6:31 pm

cough cough Subaru conversion :agrue:

Wed Mar 20, 2019 6:40 am

while I agree with the post above..

I'd go the route of a rebuilt long block over a DIY or mechanic learning on your old engine anyday.

and then any 'general' mechanic should be able to swap out a new long block for your old one w/o too much troubles.

http://www.busdepot.com/engine/crankcase-block/complete-engine-or-longblock

honestly anything 'cheaper' will cost you MORE $$ in the end..
you might be able to save $600 from these prices with a dirty handshake from a mechanic who's never (or not in the last decade) done one. will end up costing more than double the difference in the long run.

Quote: Detailed Description
Not all rebuilt engines are the same! No assembly-line engine, this is built to order by a specialist in Bus engines with 30 years experience. The case is align-bored and fitted with new main, rod, and cam bearings, new pistons and cylinders, rebuilt crank, rods, cam, and lifters, all new gaskets, and German flywheel seal. The heads feature an improved valve seat design for better reliability than the original, as well as new guides and exhaust valves, and reground intake valves. They are step cut to take today's lower quality unleaded fuel. The engine is then fully bench-tested, and covered by the manufacturer's 12 month/12,000 mile limited warranty (see documentation for details).

Note: Also available with Hydraulic Lifters for $150 more - order part # 022100625A (linked below).

Shipping: Round-trip shipping (engine to you and your core back) approx. $380-$480 within continental U.S. If you need it delivered by a truck with a lift gate, that costs additional. The shopping cart will not calculate shipping correctly but we will email you with a quote

Wed Mar 20, 2019 7:21 am

Type 1 motors are frail and feeble and not up to the job of pushing a late bus around.

VW did what they did for good reason.

Unfortunately, the only way to get good results is to do it yourself.

Get a spare core motor or two, buy the good parts and DIY.

See the motor build in my sig for some tips on what it might take.

Nobody (OK, very few) working on the clock for flat rate are going to put the care in that will inevitably be needed with something so old and beaten.

Stay away from anything hippy. You have been warned.
Hippy has NO place anywhere near such precision German equipment.

There are some great threads on here where people learned to do it,
And did it well,
And will run for a lifetime.

Search, and ye shall find.

There are no shortcuts, sorry.

Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:13 am

danfromsyr wrote: while I agree with the post above..

I'd go the route of a rebuilt long block over a DIY or mechanic learning on your old engine anyday.

and then any 'general' mechanic should be able to swap out a new long block for your old one w/o too much troubles.

http://www.busdepot.com/engine/crankcase-block/complete-engine-or-longblock

honestly anything 'cheaper' will cost you MORE $$ in the end..
you might be able to save $600 from these prices with a dirty handshake from a mechanic who's never (or not in the last decade) done one. will end up costing more than double the difference in the long run.

Quote: Detailed Description
Not all rebuilt engines are the same! No assembly-line engine, this is built to order by a specialist in Bus engines with 30 years experience. The case is align-bored and fitted with new main, rod, and cam bearings, new pistons and cylinders, rebuilt crank, rods, cam, and lifters, all new gaskets, and German flywheel seal. The heads feature an improved valve seat design for better reliability than the original, as well as new guides and exhaust valves, and reground intake valves. They are step cut to take today's lower quality unleaded fuel. The engine is then fully bench-tested, and covered by the manufacturer's 12 month/12,000 mile limited warranty (see documentation for details).

Note: Also available with Hydraulic Lifters for $150 more - order part # 022100625A (linked below).

Shipping: Round-trip shipping (engine to you and your core back) approx. $380-$480 within continental U.S. If you need it delivered by a truck with a lift gate, that costs additional. The shopping cart will not calculate shipping correctly but we will email you with a quote

So a $2,300 fresh long-block including shipping of the new out and the core back seems like a nice package to me by the time you add up the cost of all the parts. Plus its got a year warranty of some kind.

Edit: I forgot OP is dealing with a questionable case. If its not a good core one might lose the additional $600 core deposit, but $600 is a lot less than the 2 grand for a new case so still seems an enticing package to me.

Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:37 am

Sonny29 wrote: Thanks for all of the information. As bad as I hate to say it keeping the type 4 seems the best in long run. It’s just where I live there are not many old hippies with vw buses and even fewer that will work on them. The mechanic trying to guide me away from type 4 rebuild because the block has some gouged areas on bottom at seam that he could slide a knife blade tip in and said unless block was redone it would leak oil under pressure. Don’t know where to take block to have it redone and what it would cost. Any suggestions?

It's not exactly around the corner, but call Auto Atlanta and see who they use for their 914 rebuilds. They should have a good handle on Type IV parts and services.

Wed Mar 20, 2019 10:15 am

before buying the BD rebuild please ask them who they use. It used to be AVP. Do a search here. Also I think the warranty is if it doesn't work you pay to ship it to AVP in N. Highlands near here and then they look it over to tell you if it is something he did or you did. At least that is how it used to be.

example:

Eriebugger wrote:
Recently heard a rattling from my engine (74 bus)and found the fan assembly loose and rattling. Turned out that the fan hub had come loose and ruined the woodruff key along with chewing up the hub. After reading multiple posts on similar issues, I have spent a week filing, sanding, measuring etc and think I have gotten things smooth out, replaced the key, oil seal, and o ring. I started the motor briefly to make sure the seal is not leaking before I bolt the fan back on. I noticed an oil leak. Can anyone identify what the oil is coming from? Seems to be some sort of pin going into the block? It's to the left of the fan hub in the picture. Tried drying it off and restarted, drip came right back. I'm new to buses & type IV engines especially. Do I leave it drip or is there something I can do before I put the fan back in? Bought the bus a few months ago. The engine was just replaced last year with a rebuild from AVP. I don't think the PO did too great of an install, hence the fan coming loose. I'd like to post more pictures of the bus but have a really difficult time of it, this is the first pic I have managed to post, took me an hour. Anyway, appreciate any advice.

tcraft wrote: 1977 transporter,GD block,hydraulic valve upgrade,FI
AVP rebuild installed about 6 years ago and gently driven about 5000 miles
since then. Engine has run flawlessly up until about a month ago. When driving to my winter storage unit I Noticed some faint squeaking from left side and then some light tappet sounds in time with engine RPM's. Got to the unit and it started hammering. Shut down,pushed it inside. Next weekend started it up just in case-hammer still there,shut it down immediately.
Quite certain it is a head problem-dropped seat or some such. It is too cold to lie on the cement here in the winter- So,after consulting some liquid courage ordered a set of Blueprint Specials from Len Hoffman. Will haul the bus off to Stanagon in Natick Ma for a professional install and look-see and some
"while we are at it" stuff.
Will take pictures and report on what the shop thinks-probably April or so.
Disappointing- while I know that AVP is far from the gold standard I though it would be better than GEX
Bill

Wed Mar 20, 2019 5:38 pm

Ok my new friends, I have found a very good and recommended vw rebuild, refurbish and mechanic guy in Jacksonville Fl which is about 2.5hours from me. Been in business 46 years and they have a machine shop and rebuild type 4s. General prices quoted were better thanI had been told. Going for total rebuild with warranty for my bus. Again, thanks to all. I have learned a lot and continue to enjoy the people I’m meeting on this journey. SAMBA YOU ARE THE BEST!

Wed Mar 20, 2019 5:42 pm

wagonwerks or hilltop motors?

Wed Mar 20, 2019 6:32 pm

SGKent wrote: before buying the BD rebuild please ask them who they use. It used to be AVP. Do a search here. Also I think the warranty is if it doesn't work you pay to ship it to AVP in N. Highlands near here and then they look it over to tell you if it is something he did or you did. At least that is how it used to be.

I learned years ago to get the torque wrench out and go over all the fasteners on an engine when you are putting in a fresh rebuild.