TheSamba.com :: View topic - penetrating oil bake-off…for amusement purposes…

Tue Apr 30, 2019 5:00 pm

Can water penetrate and release rusty fasteners?

Amazing what some people believe but it does explain the enduring popularity of MythBusters…

This is part of a series so maybe there is time to get ATF/Acetone or PBlaster in the mix.

Tue Apr 30, 2019 5:30 pm

It is hard to compare using real world cases - I'll stick with PBlaster based on what I have experienced but I (unlike this test) allow many days or even weeks for it to work and also use some tapping on the part to encourage penetration.

Never been convinced the ATF/Acetone was for real - the magazine article is often cited but may or may not have really happened.

Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:40 pm

Paulbeard wrote: Can water penetrate and release rusty fasteners?
...

Answer: Yes. In fact, water can cut thru the metal the fasteners are made of too.

See Also: water jet

Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:46 pm

Merian wrote: Paulbeard wrote: Can water penetrate and release rusty fasteners?
...

Answer: Yes. In fact, water can cut thru the metal the fasteners are made of too.

See Also: water jet

/sigh

Still water in a bowl is not a water jet. It's not the water anyway, it's the abrasives carried by the water.

Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:48 pm

Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:50 pm

Ahwahnee wrote: Never been convinced the ATF/Acetone was for real - the magazine article is often cited but may or may not have really happened.

Same here.
I’ve never seen corroboration.
But that doesn’t mean much.
I’m thinkin’ its a new “old husbands tale”

But its popular enough I think folks would buy it if it came in a spray can with a hose.

Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:54 pm

This kind of bake-off might be the perfect place to test it. Why not send it in as a suggestion?

Tue Apr 30, 2019 9:06 pm

Just watched the bake-off.
Well done.
PB blaster and Liquid wrench work well, but Ive never done a comparison.
When I know a bolts gonna be real ornery I apply penetrating oil over a few days and have often been surprised when they unscrew.

Wed May 01, 2019 7:46 am

This is the only tool you need. Well you need the money to buy the tool but hands down, this is the only sure fire way of getting bolts loose. I've never seen fluid seep into a rusted part. It seems that it must break free before the oil seeps in. Fortunately I do not live in a rust prone area.

Wed May 01, 2019 7:56 am

That thing's pretty cool.

How do you mitigate overheating the part, say on a CV? Put on, check, more heat, check?

Wed May 01, 2019 8:08 am

Butcher wrote: this is the only sure fire way of getting bolts loose. I've never seen fluid seep into a rusted part. It seems that it must break free before the oil seeps in. Fortunately I do not live in a rust prone area.

Cool tool! (Electrical Induction energy heats only the bolt).

There are conditions where seating of the bolt head forms a perfect seal around the washer ring. As such penetrating oil "may not" pass by to get to the bolt threads. But I’ve been surprised by bolts that won’t turn at all, with imminent danger of rounding off the (corroded/smaller) hex, then after a few days (sometimes just “hours”) they turn “easily” using just penetrating oil. Especially if theres a washer, (or threads) ir any possible passageway.

Butcher you don’t seem to have been born yesterday.
Your post is mostly a joke, right? Or do you mean a Pro mechanic, with a car plugging up a bay, doesn’t have even minutes, much less hours (or days) for penetrating oil to work (like the DIYer can). But agreed it is a cool tool (high heat with no flame).

Wed May 01, 2019 5:26 pm

I use WD-40.... I don’t like the smell of Liquid Wrench and Really don’t like the smell of PB Blaster.
It’s worse for the burning off of these sprays once you have to resort to getting out the Oxy-Acy torch if the oil failed.

Never tried the wax as D suggested, and Acetone is another smelly chemical I try to avoid.

Here in the Rust Belt, or at least the edge of it..( :wink: ), I have wire brushes to shed rust, my Snap-On Crud Thud to also clean parts before applying Penetrating Oil, a HF needle scaler to clean and shock a joint or bolt, or my Air Hammer if needed.

I’ve seen the Inductive Tools demonstrated, they’re neat but out of my price range. And I can’t talk a manager into buying them as a shop tool.

Some days the rust battle goes my way, and some days it doesn’t.... :roll:

Wed May 01, 2019 5:44 pm

I have found PB Blaster and Liquid Wrench to outperform WD40 bigtime in getting rusty bolts loose.

At least is SEEMS like "bigtime"..... Every bolt is different.

Wed May 01, 2019 5:48 pm

Never liked the fish oil. Kroil is my go to or PB Blaster if out of Kroil.

Fri May 03, 2019 8:05 am

My favorite which is no longer produced is Pentron. Once I run out of it I will probably go back to my backup of AFT and Acetone.

Here's a link to a similar post on another forum:
https://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/98-5-02-non-powertrain/580189-penetrating-oil.html

Fri May 03, 2019 9:00 am

Over this side of the pond, I've never found WD40 to be that good. I"ve always had better luck with Plusgas

[And thanks @Butcher for introducing me to another ridiculously expensive tool I'd never heard of before but which I'll now add to the "When I win the lottery...." list]

Sat May 04, 2019 4:28 am

For the test I'm wondering if a bolt and nut for each brand tightened and over-torqued to same torque using a torque wrench to the point of just before they strip and letting it sit a few hours to take a set into each other(bolt & nut).
Then using a torque wrench with the swinging needle on a scale to see what the breaking torque is on one without any penetrating oil and record the breaking torque of that nut.
Then apply each brand to a nut and let it sit/soak in and record the breaking torque of each brand compared to the nut without the penetrating oil.

It would be nice if you had a year to wait and put the nuts & bolts in a salty environment.

Grand Ma allows said a large hammer and a larger vocabulary would fix anything.

Sat May 04, 2019 5:14 pm

No joking. I just have not seen penetrating oil work to break free a fastener. This is just my experience and is not saying it does not work for others.

Once it's broken free, YES, the stuff can get into the threads and YES, the fastener does come out easier. I just do not see that it can penetrate when everything is frozen up. Maybe it's I'm just impatient. In my younger years, time was money.

With the years under my belt, I know when there is a problem. I do not mess around. I try first to make certain it's frozen. Then I apply heat. It used to be a torch, now it's induction. Once the fastener is broken free, I like to use Wurth HHS2000.

If you spray oil on the seized bolt and it does not work, then heat causes the oil to catch fire. Another waste of time. I go for the jugular.

As for the induction trick, I thought is was snake oil until my friend purchased one at his shop and I was able to use it. I'm sold. I purchased one and trust me, I'm cheap. It was that good.

Sat May 04, 2019 5:21 pm

Butcher wrote: No joking. I just have not seen penetrating oil work to break free a fastener. This is just my experience and is not saying it does not work for others.

Once it's broken free, YES, the stuff can get into the threads and YES, the fastener does come out easier. I just do not see that it can penetrate when everything is frozen up.

That's pretty much my experience as well. I blast the fastener with the lubricant to reduce the friction once the initial rust bond is broken, but I don't expect it to be much help prior to the break.

Sat May 04, 2019 5:21 pm

Heat Good

the key to using a penetrant is to be patient - patient over several days or more & you also should go tap on thing every few hours - it WILL penetrate* and help loosen the fastener

whenever I buy an old vehicle, I get under there and spray all the fasteners, it may sit there for year before I try to break it free... but in 50 years I have only snapped off one small stud and have used heat only a couple of times, and maybe not needed then

* "capillary action"