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Sun Jul 21, 2019 12:33 pm

Looking at the diagram for my 70 bug, it looks like there are 5 wires coming off of 4 spots on the flasher unit. Having a 50 year newer flasher unit, it only has 3 terminals labeled 31, 49, and 49a. It looks like there is a blue wire and a white wire coming from the e flasher switch and the blue wire goes on the same terminal as the black and white wire from the ignition switch. There is a wire that runs from the flasher to the indicator light on the dash. Where do these all go on the flasher unit?

Sun Jul 21, 2019 6:42 pm

There's no such thing as a 5 terminal flasher relay for VW.

Up until mid 63 then again from mid 68 into model year 71, VW used a 4 terminal flasher. The extra terminal was a dedicated terminal to operate the bulb in the speedometer. The early ones didn't actually have a 4th wire, this connection was the ground which required the flasher be bolted to the body.

Both times after VW went away from this system, they simply moved the "K" or "KBL" (blinker terminal) over to "S" or "49A", which then would make the dash bulb light up opposite from the outside bulbs - it actually grounds through the outside bulbs now! Sometimes only this extra set of contacts in an original flasher unit goes bad, making it so the lights outside flash but inside they don't, and you can simply move that wire over as a workaround.

Oh, and since the flasher relay connects to both the turn signal switch and the emergency flasher switch, (it does double duty you might say) that's why it looks like 5 connections on it.

Mon Jul 22, 2019 2:13 pm

ok, I have confusion.

I have been using several diagrams. One has numbers for the terminals, one doesn't.

This is where I am at.

As we can see the white wire runs from the e flasher switch to the flasher relay. The blue wire ties in with the wire that runs to the column, black and white. the orange striped wire runs to the indicator light on the dash.

With the e flasher switch on or with either turn signal, I get the tick, tick, tick noise that accompanies the flashing light on the dash, but I get nothing at the corners. I took the blue wire off thinking it was in the wrong place and got nothing out of it at all

So where is the juice going and how do I get it to where I need it? I have the flasher grounded through the light on the dash, and it makes noise at least. I do not have the X replacement switch, I already looked.

Speaking of looking, I noticed two unused terminals on my light switch, both marked 57. Any thoughts on what is supposed to go there? I don't think they have ever been used as there is not a scratch one on the terminal blades.

as always, Thanks in advance :D

Mon Jul 22, 2019 5:00 pm

Bob Brugge wrote: I have been using several diagrams. One has numbers for the terminals, one doesn't.

This is where I am at.

You need to pick ONE wiring diagram and stick with it.
That diagram you posted is a Clymer diagram. I never really liked them. I have found errors in some and they lack the terminal#s. Also the wire colors are sort of pastel colored so my old eyes have a hard time deciding what the real color is. For example, the wire from the turn indicator lamp in the speedo to the flasher relay is blue/red, not green/orange.

Stick with the Bentley diagrams which is what the VW used. Stick with this one for 1970:

Bob Brugge wrote: As we can see the white wire runs from the e flasher switch to the flasher relay.
This is the #49 (or +) wire which runs from the E-Flasher switch to the flasher relay (#49 or + terminal). This is the 12v INPUT to the flasher relay.

Bob Brugge wrote: The blue wire ties in with the wire that runs to the column, black and white.
This is the #49a terminal of the flasher relay. It is the OUTPUT terminal and provides a pulsing 12v+ once a path to ground opens.
The black/green/white wire (Clymer wire color is wrong) runs from the flasher relay to the turn signal switch.
The solid blue wire runs from the flasher relay OUTPUT back to terminal #49a on the E-Flasher switch. When the E-Flasher switch is turned ON it allows the pulsing current from the flasher relay to pass to the L and R terminals which power all four corner lamp.
The stock flasher relay was load sensing and expected two 21W bulbs per side. If the load was less than this the stock flasher relay would quick flash to indicate a bulb has burnt out. This is why stock flasher relays don't play nice w/ LED bulbs.

Bob Brugge wrote: the orange striped wire runs to the indicator light on the dash.
The blue/red striped wire runs from the KBL terminal of the flasher relay to the turn indicator lamp at the bottom of the speedo. The key thing to remember with these three indicator lamps in the speedo is they share a common 12v+. The black wire connected to the very bottom terminal of the speedo comes from the fuse box and provides 12v+ to the three bulb holders. The individual wires coming off the three bulb holders each run to a switched ground to turn the bulbs ON while the ignition is ON.
This means that the KBL terminal of the flasher relay is NOT a power source for the turn indicator lamp. It is a path to ground.

Bob Brugge wrote: With the e flasher switch on or with either turn signal, I get the tick, tick, tick noise that accompanies the flashing light on the dash, but I get nothing at the corners.
My advice is to remove the turn indicator bulb from its bulb holder until you have everything working. This bulb will cause issues with troubleshooting. When everything is working as expected, THEN reinstall the bulb and confirm it is working. If things stop working you know it is related to the indicator lamp. FYI, the lamp needs to be a small watt bulb. The stock indicator bulb is 2W/12v.

If after removing the indicator lamp from the equation you still have problems. Remove the flasher relay from the equation. Connected the white INPUT (#49 / +) wire directly to the two OUTPUT wires (#49a). Clamp them together and wrap in a rag so they don't short to ground. Everything should work as expected except the bulbs will NOT flash. The corner bulbs should turn ON solid with either the turn signals or the E-Flasher switch. If they do not light up, you have a problem with the wires that run to the corners or the bulbs at the ends of the wires.
The left side corner wires are black/white. The right side are black/green. Find the 4-way junctions where these wires come together and directly power the circuits from a fused 12v source. Each corner lamp should turn ON solid when powered.

Bob Brugge wrote: I took the blue wire off thinking it was in the wrong place and got nothing out of it at all
The solid blue wire runs between the flasher relay #49a and the E-Flasher switch #49a. It is the RETURN wire which means the flasher relay is powering the E-flasher switch, not the other way around. If you disconnected the blue wire at the flasher relay thinking the E-Flasher switch was powering the flasher relay and tested wire the end of the wire for 12v... you would be disappointed. Positive current on the blue wire flows in the direction FROM the flasher relay TO the E-Flasher switch.

The E-Flasher switch has two completely separate switches internally. Once switch selects whether the #15 terminal (ignition switched power) or the #30 terminal (constant 12v) passes power to the flasher relay over the #49 / + terminal. So power always flows from the E-Flasher switch (#49) to the flasher relay (+) over the white wire.

The second switch controls whether the pulsing 12v from the flasher relay returning on the #49a terminal is passed to the L and R terminals where they will power the corner lamps. When the E-Flasher switch is OFF these three terminals are separated from each other. When the E-Flasher switch is ON, all three are connected together. This allows the pulsing 12v returning from the flasher relay on the blue #49a wire to power both the L and R terminals which will power all four corner lamps.

Bob Brugge wrote: I have the flasher grounded through the light on the dash, and it makes noise at least.
The flasher relay has a #31 terminal which is its ground. A brown wire should run from the #31 terminal to a good ground.
The flasher relay does not ground thru the speedo indicator lamp. There is one exception to this... when the E-Flasher switch is ON and the ignition switch is OFF, current from the flasher relay will light up the speedo indicator lamp as a 5th corner lamp.

Bob Brugge wrote: I do not have the X replacement switch, I already looked.

Speaking of looking, I noticed two unused terminals on my light switch, both marked 57. Any thoughts on what is supposed to go there? I don't think they have ever been used as there is not a scratch one on the terminal blades.
I'm assuming you are now talking about your headlight switch??
If using the later style headlight switch which has the "X" terminal, you need to run a jumper between one of the #30 terminals and the "X" terminal. This will allow the #30 circuit to power the "X" terminal which is the INPUT for the headlamp circuit.

The #57 terminals on the headlight switch are not used on Beetles so no need to worry about them. I believe the same switch can be used on the Bus and they use the #57 terminal.

Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:44 am

ashman40 wrote: Bob Brugge wrote: I have been using several diagrams. One has numbers for the terminals, one doesn't.

This is where I am at.

You need to pick ONE wiring diagram and stick with it.
That diagram you posted is a Clymer diagram. I never really liked them. I have found errors in some and they lack the terminal#s. Also the wire colors are sort of pastel colored so my old eyes have a hard time deciding what the real color is. For example, the wire from the turn indicator lamp in the speedo to the flasher relay is blue/red, not green/orange.

Stick with the Bentley diagrams which is what the VW used. Stick with this one for 1970:

Bob Brugge wrote: As we can see the white wire runs from the e flasher switch to the flasher relay.
This is the #49 (or +) wire which runs from the E-Flasher switch to the flasher relay (#49 or + terminal). This is the 12v INPUT to the flasher relay.

Bob Brugge wrote: The blue wire ties in with the wire that runs to the column, black and white.
This is the #49a terminal of the flasher relay. It is the OUTPUT terminal and provides a pulsing 12v+ once a path to ground opens.
The black/green/white wire (Clymer wire color is wrong) runs from the flasher relay to the turn signal switch.
The solid blue wire runs from the flasher relay OUTPUT back to terminal #49a on the E-Flasher switch. When the E-Flasher switch is turned ON it allows the pulsing current from the flasher relay to pass to the L and R terminals which power all four corner lamp.
The stock flasher relay was load sensing and expected two 21W bulbs per side. If the load was less than this the stock flasher relay would quick flash to indicate a bulb has burnt out. This is why stock flasher relays don't play nice w/ LED bulbs.

Bob Brugge wrote: the orange striped wire runs to the indicator light on the dash.
The blue/red striped wire runs from the KBL terminal of the flasher relay to the turn indicator lamp at the bottom of the speedo. The key thing to remember with these three indicator lamps in the speedo is they share a common 12v+. The black wire connected to the very bottom terminal of the speedo comes from the fuse box and provides 12v+ to the three bulb holders. The individual wires coming off the three bulb holders each run to a switched ground to turn the bulbs ON while the ignition is ON.
This means that the KBL terminal of the flasher relay is NOT a power source for the turn indicator lamp. It is a path to ground.

Bob Brugge wrote: With the e flasher switch on or with either turn signal, I get the tick, tick, tick noise that accompanies the flashing light on the dash, but I get nothing at the corners.
My advice is to remove the turn indicator bulb from its bulb holder until you have everything working. This bulb will cause issues with troubleshooting. When everything is working as expected, THEN reinstall the bulb and confirm it is working. If things stop working you know it is related to the indicator lamp. FYI, the lamp needs to be a small watt bulb. The stock indicator bulb is 2W/12v.

If after removing the indicator lamp from the equation you still have problems. Remove the flasher relay from the equation. Connected the white INPUT (#49 / +) wire directly to the two OUTPUT wires (#49a). Clamp them together and wrap in a rag so they don't short to ground. Everything should work as expected except the bulbs will NOT flash. The corner bulbs should turn ON solid with either the turn signals or the E-Flasher switch. If they do not light up, you have a problem with the wires that run to the corners or the bulbs at the ends of the wires.
The left side corner wires are black/white. The right side are black/green. Find the 4-way junctions where these wires come together and directly power the circuits from a fused 12v source. Each corner lamp should turn ON solid when powered.

Bob Brugge wrote: I took the blue wire off thinking it was in the wrong place and got nothing out of it at all
The solid blue wire runs between the flasher relay #49a and the E-Flasher switch #49a. It is the RETURN wire which means the flasher relay is powering the E-flasher switch, not the other way around. If you disconnected the blue wire at the flasher relay thinking the E-Flasher switch was powering the flasher relay and tested wire the end of the wire for 12v... you would be disappointed. Positive current on the blue wire flows in the direction FROM the flasher relay TO the E-Flasher switch.

The E-Flasher switch has two completely separate switches internally. Once switch selects whether the #15 terminal (ignition switched power) or the #30 terminal (constant 12v) passes power to the flasher relay over the #49 / + terminal. So power always flows from the E-Flasher switch (#49) to the flasher relay (+) over the white wire.

The second switch controls whether the pulsing 12v from the flasher relay returning on the #49a terminal is passed to the L and R terminals where they will power the corner lamps. When the E-Flasher switch is OFF these three terminals are separated from each other. When the E-Flasher switch is ON, all three are connected together. This allows the pulsing 12v returning from the flasher relay on the blue #49a wire to power both the L and R terminals which will power all four corner lamps.

Bob Brugge wrote: I have the flasher grounded through the light on the dash, and it makes noise at least.
The flasher relay has a #31 terminal which is its ground. A brown wire should run from the #31 terminal to a good ground.
The flasher relay does not ground thru the speedo indicator lamp. There is one exception to this... when the E-Flasher switch is ON and the ignition switch is OFF, current from the flasher relay will light up the speedo indicator lamp as a 5th corner lamp.

Bob Brugge wrote: I do not have the X replacement switch, I already looked.

Speaking of looking, I noticed two unused terminals on my light switch, both marked 57. Any thoughts on what is supposed to go there? I don't think they have ever been used as there is not a scratch one on the terminal blades.
I'm assuming you are now talking about your headlight switch??
If using the later style headlight switch which has the "X" terminal, you need to run a jumper between one of the #30 terminals and the "X" terminal. This will allow the #30 circuit to power the "X" terminal which is the INPUT for the headlamp circuit.

The #57 terminals on the headlight switch are not used on Beetles so no need to worry about them. I believe the same switch can be used on the Bus and they use the #57 terminal.

Thank you.. I thought the x switch was the flasher switch, apparently it is not.

Wed Jul 24, 2019 2:49 pm

Bob Brugge wrote: Thank you.. I thought the x switch was the flasher switch, apparently it is not.
Maybe I'm mistaken?? I thought you meant the headlight switch because it has a terminal labeled "X". If you meant a different switch, then I was mistaken.

In the Bentley diagram the E-Flasher switch is usually labeled "E". The Clymer diagram just names it. So where were you seeing "X"?