TheSamba.com :: View topic - Suspension Upgrade

Sat Jul 27, 2019 7:03 am

My van is still running on the stock springs/shocks/bushings and things are getting very creaky and squishy. I often have bikes on the back and would like to prevent rear sag.

I'm considering addressing the squishy suspension issues by replacing shocks and springs. I'm putting together a parts list for this project. I understand that there's an almost infinite list of "might as well" parts that could also be replaced while doing this work (bushings, end links, sway bar, CVs, etc...).

I do not have an unlimited budget so I'm looking for recommendations from folks who have done this project before. What are the absolute essential parts to replace? ie: I'd love to replace all bushings with powerflex, but the $600 price tag for that is not in the cards.

I'm considering going with Schwenk springs for only a moderate lift that will hopefully minimize any negative effect on CV angles. Hopefully that rules out an immediate need to upgrade the CVs.

Thanks for your help!

Sat Jul 27, 2019 12:07 pm

If budget is important and you're satisfied with the current ride height of your van I'd prioritize springs last.

"Very creaky" is likely worn bushings. "Squishy" is likely worn bushings and shocks". Stiffer springs can help squishy but you'd still have worn bushings and shocks which are squishy and sloppy, i.e. you move the steering wheel, wait, and then the van rolls in the opposite direction of the steer and it eventually begins moving in the direction of the steer. Or the van bounces repeatedly after rolling over a bump.

Ride height in the back can be fixed with cheap cutting board spacers under your current springs. It can also be helped with stiffer springs or air shocks that are adjusted based on load. The cutting board spacers will help with ride height though.

Priorities?
- Tires! do they have the correct load rating and are they inflated properly.
- Bushings and shocks because they are wear items and s0und like they're worn out (again, if budget is important and you're satisfied with the current ride height provided by the springs.)
- Steering rack bushings will make a noticeable difference in steering response.
- A T3 front anti-sway bar is an addition that stabilizes the ride quite a bit.

I've gone through OEM, Schwenk and GW 1 1/2" lift springs, Bilstein, Rancho and Fox shocks and bushings.

You'll notice a difference!

Sat Jul 27, 2019 12:48 pm

jimf909 wrote: If budget is important and you're satisfied with the current ride height of your van I'd prioritize springs last.

Great tips! I appreciate the response.

To clarify, "squishy" is referring to symptoms such as:

-sagging in the rear under load
-nose-diving in the front during hard stops
-etc...

I think this points to the springs, no? Hard for me to say if "rolling" is an issue; I may have a little of this, but it's not over-bearing.

I'm OK with the ride height, but I'll take a modest lift.

Tires area great--Nokian Hakka C Van, PSI correct.

Since you're a bit proponent of bushings, do you have a preference between urethane vs. rubber? (not to start a debate! :wink: )

Also, can I get your opinion on spring/shock combo? What's the best shock to pair with Schwenk?

Thx!

Sat Jul 27, 2019 5:28 pm

I'd go with the T3 Technique Sway Bar and Rubber Bushings.

The polyurethane ones are really nice, but you know the cost of them.
The rubber ones lasted 30 years and they do work. If your looking to improve your handling just replacing the old worn out rubber with new rubber would be an improvement.

Sun Jul 28, 2019 6:33 am

Here's my list so far:

-Springs (thinking Schwenk)
-Shocks (TBD)
-T3 anti-roll bar
-T3 HD end links
-Rubber Suspension Bushing Kit

Sun Jul 28, 2019 6:38 am

If you're carrying bikes or heavier loads on the rear you might want to think about some adjustable air shocks. I just added Gabriel Hijacker air shocks to mine last night. I put them on in anticipation of getting a heavy duty bumper with hitch so I can carry around a scooter or small motorcycle.

Sun Jul 28, 2019 11:12 am

porterbrown wrote: Here's my list so far:

-Springs (thinking Schwenk)
-Shocks (TBD)
-T3 anti-roll bar
-T3 HD end links
-Rubber Suspension Bushing Kit

That’s a pretty good list. I’ll bet it makes a nice improvement.

My mechanic (Eion’s in Seattle) prefers a mix of rubber and PU but I can’t say where or how.

Between the OEM, Schwenk and GW lift springs I preferred the ride of Schwenk springs. Experienced suspension folks have recommended them as well. I had an issue with sag (15 1/2” ride height on the driver’s front) that Steve Schwenk carefully discussed with me several times (my van is heavy - 5,000 lbs - and weight is biased to that corner). For now I’m seeing how the GW 1 1/2” lift springs work (they’re different and for most of my driving they’re fine, though they seem to allow more body roll on turns which also may be the shocks which were changed at the same time).

As for shocks, I found the Bilstein HD to be a bit squishy. GW sells the XHD and say they adjusted calving to address some of that. The Ranchos worked well for me and are inexpensive but require some bits and pieces to fit. Now I have FOX shocks from GW but will experiment with different valuing when it’s time for them to be rebuilt. For a stock ride height, the Konis seem to get the most positive votes (I believe they don’t fit lifted vans).

Rancho thread...
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0

Suspension is complicated, time consuming and can be expensive. Your list stays close to stock with a few good improvements like the anti-sway bar which will keep costs reasonable. If your van is not heavy, lifted, with things hanging off each corner then this will probably work well. Don’t get distracted by all the changes some people make. :D

Sun Jul 28, 2019 11:43 am

Silverghost500 wrote: If you're carrying bikes or heavier loads on the rear you might want to think about some adjustable air shocks. I just added Gabriel Hijacker air shocks to mine last night. I put them on in anticipation of getting a heavy duty bumper with hitch so I can carry around a scooter or small motorcycle.

Thanks for the post. I considered this, but seems a bit overkill for my needs maybe. I've seen many vans carrying bikes without sagging issues. Motorcycles are another story though...

Sun Jul 28, 2019 11:45 am

jimf909 wrote: That’s a pretty good list. I’ll bet it makes a nice improvement.

Thx!

I've read that the Schwenk springs give a modest lift. Is this true?...or should I expect zero lift?

Sun Jul 28, 2019 12:06 pm

porterbrown wrote: jimf909 wrote: That’s a pretty good list. I’ll bet it makes a nice improvement.

Thx!

I've read that the Schwenk springs give a modest lift. Is this true?...or should I expect zero lift?

That depends entirely on the weight of the van. You have a Westy. Does it have a kitchen? Bumpers? Racks? Batteries? Spare tires? For my loaded van I did not see a lift (15 1/2” - 16 1/2” from axle center to fender lip). Schwenk suggests a modest lift (great info at Syncro.org).

Syncro oriented but still helpful...
http://syncro.org/vw-syncro-upgrades/suspension/
Schwenk springs...
http://www.syncro.org/schwenksprings/vanagon_springs.html
If you’re buying Schwenk springs, read this page...
http://www.syncro.org/schwenksprings/vanagon_springs_p.2.html

I recommend stopping at a truck stop to weigh your van front axle and rear. It’s easy and costs $10 - $20. There may be a scale close to you (there’s one a few miles away from me in SoDo in Seattle!). This is a key data point.

I was experimenting and weighed my van twice on the same day back in March. $10 and $12.

Sun Jul 28, 2019 3:46 pm

I would definitely install urethane lower control arm bushings front and rear. It's a major muther to install the rubber versions, and urethane is an absolute piece of cake. I've struggled with some urethane upper control arm bushings as well as those for the upper swaybars, so I recommend rubber for both those applications. I really really love the urethane steering rack bushings.

Sun Jul 28, 2019 4:02 pm

Zeitgeist 13 wrote: I would definitely install urethane lower control arm bushings front and rear. It's a major muther to install the rubber versions, and urethane is an absolute piece of cake. I've struggled with some urethane upper control arm bushings as well as those for the upper swaybars, so I recommend rubber for both those applications. I really really love the urethane steering rack bushings.

Yeah, you will need a press to install the rubber bushings on the control arms.
Getting them out is easy. After you get the control arms out you can use a drill to just drill holes completely through the old bushing - go through the bushing by drilling holes around the metal insert that the bolt slides through. You drill enough holes so that it collapses upon itself. Then it is easy to push out.

Sun Jul 28, 2019 4:27 pm

Typically a good number of the LCA bolts will need to be sawzalled off due to seizing, which is always a fun way to start your day.

Mon Jul 29, 2019 1:42 pm

porterbrown wrote: What are the absolute essential parts to replace?

porterbrown wrote: Here's my list so far:

-Springs (thinking Schwenk)
-Shocks (TBD)
-T3 anti-roll bar
-T3 HD end links
-Rubber Suspension Bushing Kit

I'm not sure how a T3 bar/end links became part of any "essential" list. Have you even gone through the suspension to know what shape the various bushings are in? Tie rods, etc.? I mean don't get me wrong, I've spent the money at T3 on bushings/springs/anti-roll bar, but not because I was on a tight budget.

Assess and replace the parts that are shot, shim your springs, and find cheap new shocks, or realize you've left the realm of essentials behind and talk to T3 about more than steering rack bushings.

This post just seemed to head off in a weird direction to me.

Mon Jul 29, 2019 1:49 pm

I agree that you can put off the sway bar upgrade/maintenance. However, if you need at least one end link, I'd go with the T3 end links/sway bar.

My recommend list

- White line Steering bushings
- White line LCA bushing (Urethane)
- the rest powerflex bushings
- Powerflex UCA bushings (or burley UCA's if going with GoWesty lift springs)
- Moog ball joints
- Schwenk springs if no lift

Mon Jul 29, 2019 3:01 pm

doing this job currently, my parts list is

Gowesty lift springs
Bilstein XHD shocks
Burley upper control arms
T3 sway bar/HD endlinks
Power flex radius rod, lower control arm, rear trailing arms, steering rack bushings
all new Febi ball joints, tie rods
new hardware (youll most likely need it)

havent driven it yet since im still working on it (cali is too hot for me to be working outside) so slowly but surely getting there, all new everything decided im going in once (hopefully)

Mon Jul 29, 2019 4:20 pm

iltis74 wrote: I'm not sure how a T3 bar/end links became part of any "essential" list.

This post just seemed to head off in a weird direction to me.

Fair assessment! My intention is to replace 30 years of worn parts while I'm "in there". I have not inspected each bushing, but I feel fairly certain that most could use replacement.

I didn't mean to imply that I'm on a shoe-string budget, though my budget will not afford all of the luxuries available (Burley control arms, etc...).

I think you're right that it might be time to give T3 a call and get some additional suggestions.

Sat Aug 03, 2019 6:16 am

Just discovered that this kit exists from Burley. It's a complete bushing replacement kit--compilation of rubber and urethane. Includes bolts as needed.

Seems to take some of the guessing out of making sure all the correct pieces get ordered.

https://burleymotorsports.net/product/the-complete-vanagon-bushing-package/

Sat Aug 10, 2019 6:42 pm

Thanks again to everybody that contributed to the this thread and helped me determine what I THINK I need for this project. I've weighed some of the options, and here's the purchase list that I have going. Of course, one's approach to shocks and springs is known to be subjective; otherwise, any feedback to this list is welcome.

Front Shocks - Koni 82-2100
https://www.amazon.com/Koni-82-2100-Volkswagen-Van...amp;sr=8-1

Rear Shocks - Koni 82-2101
https://www.amazon.com/Koni-82-2101-Volkswagen-Van...amp;sr=8-1

Springs (front and rear) - Schwenk 2WD
https://burleymotorsports.net/product/springs-for-2wd-vanagon-schwenk/

Bushings - Burley's Complete Kit
https://burleymotorsports.net/product/the-complete-vanagon-bushing-package/

Ball Joints and Tie Rods - Burley's Bundle
https://burleymotorsports.net/product/ball-joint-and-tie-rod-bundle/

Bushing Lube - TBD

Sat Aug 10, 2019 7:10 pm

Look like pretty good choices to me. 8)