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  View original topic: Type 4 engine vs Upgraded Type 1 Page: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
SweetCars Sun Aug 11, 2019 7:24 am

Hi everyone,

Reading lately on Type 4 engine and all the Pros and Cons.
They improved a lot of things compared to original Type 1 engine, aluminium case, beefer crank, better lubricating, better cooling.

I wonder now with the new aftermarket parts we have. For example Type 1 aluminum case, forged crank, full flowed case, external oil coolers, 8 dowel pins cranks..... would the Type 4 still be superior?

Or the type 4 is only superior Stock vs Stock?

Clatter Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:01 am

Oh, no... Not this one again.. :roll:

APPLEGREENVW Sun Aug 11, 2019 11:00 am

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=699456

SweetCars Sun Aug 11, 2019 11:54 am

Well thank you for the great info.

But what i was asking wasnt information on the type 4.
But with all the diferent technique and aftermarket parts available, not about HP but about reliability, the type 1 engine isnt equal reliable and string than the type 4?

External oil filter
Stronger crank
Aluminium case
Full flow

Arent those the corrections of the type 1 engine? Or even with those mods, the type 4 is greater?

SweetCars Sun Aug 11, 2019 11:59 am

Quote: Oh, no... Not this one again.. Rolling Eyes

Just go on your way. Dont understand the meaning of your comment. Thats maybe the way you got over 4000 post for commenting stupidity. You should be strongly bored.

H2OSB Sun Aug 11, 2019 1:02 pm

SweetCars wrote: Quote: Oh, no... Not this one again.. Rolling Eyes

Just go on your way. Dont understand the meaning of your comment. Thats maybe the way you got over 4000 post for commenting stupidity. You should be strongly bored.

No, it's just that this topic has been covered before...and people can get heated.

H2OSB

Alstrup Sun Aug 11, 2019 3:49 pm

He´s already hot :lol: 8)

Short version: Anything sub 2 liter isnt worth converting to type 4 for. Reason is that the cost involved is simply too high.
Harsh enviroment, a lot of high speed driving or high sustained loads say in a bus, YES then it can definitely be an advantage going type 4.

bugguy1967 Sun Aug 11, 2019 6:23 pm

In a T4

Crank still has no flexing issues

Valvetrain is still more stable

Heads still have more surface area

Pushrod alignment is still better

Crank/flywheel connection is stronger (argueable)

And they're not that expensive. They can be, but so can T1. A machinist could build a very strong T4 on a T1 budget.

H2OSB Sun Aug 11, 2019 6:30 pm

Not to mention the life span. A well cared for T4 will triple the life of a stock, also well cared for T1

H2OSB

nextgen Sun Aug 11, 2019 7:35 pm

Wow you guys sound like me, hmmmm, about in 1992, when it was just me vs the T-1 forces.

The time has come when the virtues of the T-4 engine are no longer in doubt.

Carry on!! Ha !

jpaull Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:31 pm

In most ways the type 4 would still be more reliable. If your sole goal is reliability, and money is not the biggest factor, its really a great choice(better).

This is the performance section of thesamba. So this still needs to be said:
Type 1 fun is with all the choices. A guy can hot rod a type 1 so easy and with low out of pocket. (The small block chevy of VW's)
1. 8 different crank sizes for 250 each
2. 5 different H beam rod sizes for under 250 a set
3. 50 different performance Head options from 5 different manufactures all under $1,000. How many Type 4 performance head options under $1k?
4. Straight cut gears, cams, intakes, rockers, valve covers to infinity.
5. If something does break, its super easy to take apart and relatively inexpensive to fix.

Then comes mechanical beauty...... once a type 4 is converted to go onto type 1, its pretty damn ugly. The wierd oil filler, exhaust morphing out the bottom of the heads =P~ barf . Now if your into German look covered in carbon fiber trying to be a porsche then great.

Onceler Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:06 pm

I couldn’t imagine trying to build a type IV for performance considering the relatively small market. Hell, even the far larger type 1 market is packed full of prima donnas.

oprn Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:12 pm

Ahh! But... the type 4 engine comes stock with a good bit of performance already built in! We are already 1/2 way there before you guys have even started to hot rod yours! :wink:

bugguy1967 Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:56 pm

jpaull wrote: In most ways the type 4 would still be more reliable. If your sole goal is reliability, and money is not the biggest factor, its really a great choice(better).

This is the performance section of thesamba. So this still needs to be said:
Type 1 fun is with all the choices. A guy can hot rod a type 1 so easy and with low out of pocket. (The small block chevy of VW's)
1. 8 different crank sizes for 250 each
2. 5 different H beam rod sizes for under 250 a set
3. 50 different performance Head options from 5 different manufactures all under $1,000. How many Type 4 performance head options under $1k?
4. Straight cut gears, cams, intakes, rockers, valve covers to infinity.
5. If something does break, its super easy to take apart and relatively inexpensive to fix.

Then comes mechanical beauty...... once a type 4 is converted to go onto type 1, its pretty damn ugly. The wierd oil filler, exhaust morphing out the bottom of the heads =P~ barf . Now if your into German look covered in carbon fiber trying to be a porsche then great.

I agree with most of this. I like the look of the T4 now. You gotta acquire the taste, like India Pale Ales.

There are zero options for good heads under $1000, unless you can machine everything yourself.

Wreck Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:03 am

[

Then comes mechanical beauty...... once a type 4 is converted to go onto type 1, its pretty damn ugly. The wierd oil filler, exhaust morphing out the bottom of the heads =P~ barf . Now if your into German look covered in carbon fiber trying to be a porsche then great.[/quote]





No ugly oil filler's here :D :D .
My take is horses for courses . if you have a bug/Ghia/Type3 are happy with stock to medium HP then the difference is not that great , reliability comes more down to the engine builder and tuner and how well the engine is serviced in it's life time .

If it's a heavy bus and is used as a daily driver in hotter climates then a type 4 wins because of the 30% bigger surface area of the heads and 94mm cylinders have bigger cooling fins . But again how well the engine is built and cooled plays a huge part in reliability and life span .
AA now make a bare casting of the 2lt Porsche 914 type 4 head just over $300USD .a stock head with 42mm 36mm valves flow around 180CFM at .500" , All depends on machining costs to get the heads fitted out . But I'm guessing in the State's that wouldn't be too much over the $1000 mark

jpaull Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:28 am

The 2 pictures above show something that demonstrates a confidence in reliability over a duration of time. The AC compressor. Type 1's can do it, but its abit more realistic with a type 4.

nextgen Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:25 am

I don't know about ugly. Most guys like the Cali Style using stock T-1 36 hp fanhousings because they look stock. Evening in states that will not pass a car with a non stock engine. They cannot tell by just looking.

A big percentage of my manuals sold are to Europe you fail inspection if not stock.

Many of my customers are Porsche 356 and 912 owners saving the original engine for when and if they sell the car. No body cutting, in and out like stock.

They daily drive and can have more power then stock. Hard to kill a T-4 in a light car.

I see the only real difference is the Gen/ Alt stand if you look hard.

APPLEGREENVW Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:01 pm


I don't see anything ugly this photo. 8) =P~

Glenn Mon Aug 12, 2019 1:06 pm

Looks OK to me....


jpaull Mon Aug 12, 2019 3:20 pm

APPLEGREENVW wrote:
I don't see anything ugly this photo. 8) =P~

That's the coolest one I've seen! The ugly ass oil filler is not in the picture, and still needs to be added though. For $600 in cooling for a type 4 conversion that's pretty darn clean.



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