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Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:02 am

According to the sizes of all the components I intend to order today - and the size of the standard 20lb propane canister > and taking into consideration the sizes of all the building materials I already have here in my Mom's basement (stuff she wants me to chuck out anyway LOL)… I have come up with this design.

Influencing the design also is that I have decided that most likely (for the foreseeable future) I will not be going with a hightop or even a poptop - but rather just keep the tintop as is. Also likely that I will not be upgrading the engine from the 1.6NA to a more powerful engine. So I want to keep weight down.
The interior as is, right now, is in fantastic shape, and I love the very low sitting full bench. I realized that if I have a low sink, I can very comfortably sit on the bench and cook. With the full bench transformed into a huge double bed there is not much need for the second bed upstairs that we get with high/pop-tops.
With this kitchen and with this van in general - considering the lack of time and money I have to invest in him, I want to keep things absolutely as simple as possible. So it struck me that I could eliminate a lot of trouble and expense by simply using gravity to deliver water to my kitchen sink rather than faucets and pumps and underbody watertanks and drilling holes and blablablabla… furthermore countertop tank I intend to use only costs $15. To fill it I just lift up a hinged counter and pour the water into the big hole on the top of the tank. the tank itself will drape over into the sink, and just flick the plastic dispenser lever and we have water.

Beside the sink will be a small area for a cutting board, and the stove will be at second level slightly higher... a 3rd counter space will be slightly higher than that, will be a hinged cover for the water tank - this will be at about window lever, and good for putting plates and bowls on to be served food.

Under the sink will be a large open space for storing dishes and some food... and under the stove - accessible by a fold down hinged door, will be another large storage space which will fit a 20 lb propane canister. [I am not sure if I will actually travel with this large canister, but at least I have the option to fit it in there].

I will be ordering the components today... any thoughts or feedback will be welcome -

THANKS
Ed

Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:07 am

I like it but I'd ditch the 20lbs propane tank and go with a 5 or 10 lb max tank. 20 lbs is way heavy, large, and overkill to an extreme.

Look at these:
https://www.acehardware.com/departments/outdoor-li...6tEALw_wcB

https://www.walmart.com/ip/11-lb-Propane-Cylinder-...TMEALw_wcB

Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:12 am

dobryan wrote: I like it but I'd ditch the 20lbs propane tank and go with a 5 or 10 lb max tank. 20 lbs is way heavy, large, and overkill to an extreme.

Look at these:
https://www.acehardware.com/departments/outdoor-li...6tEALw_wcB

https://www.walmart.com/ip/11-lb-Propane-Cylinder-...TMEALw_wcB

Thanks Dave, you are probably right > however I was able to create enough space for it without compromising the total design... so at least the option is there. My motivation for the 20LB can is that this is clearly the most economical and standard way to go. Here in Vancouver you can buy a full can for only $50, and refilling is cheap. A full can will last me 4 months of camping. So ultimately for short trips I will probably get the refillable 1LB cans - 1 can for one week of use...

...we'll see, but anyway, I have to 20lb option available. I need to go the propane place and talk to them to get a better overview.

Thanks for the feedback.

Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:15 am

Here's an 11lb tank that's shorter than the one linked above:
Manchester Tank 10393

For the water tank I might look for something more durable. I've had clear plastic jugs get bounced around and split the corners and very very slowly leak everything out.

Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:43 am

The tall 11 lb is your best option IMO.

You state that 1 lb a week is what you need.
So 11 lbs is 10 weeks with a little to spare.
Propane can be refilled almost anywhere.
Carry a 1 lb disposable for backup, giving you a week to fill the empty main tank.

Mark

Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:44 am

erste wrote:
For the water tank I might look for something more durable..

Good idea... this one is probably pretty wimpy.
If I buy 3 I get free delivery, so I might do that in anticipation of an eventual leak or tap waring out. Otherwise I could not find anything else of a similar size.

Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:48 am

crazyvwvanman wrote: The tall 11 lb is your best option IMO.

You state that 1 lb a week is what you need.
So 11 lbs is 10 weeks with a little to spare.
Propane can be refilled almost anywhere.
Carry a 1 lb disposable for backup, giving you a week to fill the empty main tank.

Mark

Yeah I think you guys are right on this one..... even 5 lb. . . I will call them now and suss out the thing further -

Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:51 am

Here are the prices:
- 5 lb FULL incl TAX = $70CAD
- 8 lb FULL incl TAX = $76CAD
-11 lb FULL incl TAX = $145CAD
-20 lb FULL incl TAX = $59CAD

The difference in weight between the 11LB and the 20LB is about 5KG on average... I guess an extra 5KG is not really SO much more for my little 1.6NA to haul around? ...the 11LB can is significantly more expensive and would only last half the fime.
:?:

Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:59 pm

crazyvwvanman wrote:
Carry a 1 lb disposable for backup

They told me at the propane store that 1 lb cans are considered unsafe for INSIDE usage because they are high pressure. So those of you using 1 lb cans inside... how do you do it? ....do u just risk it with the high pressure?

Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:12 pm

So NOW you're going to worry about unsafe?

On my side of the border the 11 lb is $42 shipped free.
About $10 to fill.

https://www.amazon.com/Flame-King-YSN011-Cylinder-...amp;sr=1-1

Using any size propane tank inside the vehicle is considered unsafe, unless it is in a locker sealed off from the interior and vented to the exterior. That is why Westy external under mount tanks exist.

All of the portable stoves I have say they are for outside use.

Mark

epowell wrote: crazyvwvanman wrote:
Carry a 1 lb disposable for backup

They told me at the propane store that 1 lb cans are considered unsafe for INSIDE usage because they are high pressure. So those of you using 1 lb cans inside... how do you do it? ....do u just risk it with the high pressure?

Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:23 pm

crazyvwvanman wrote: So NOW you're going to worry about unsafe?

Mark, when you run one of your 'outdoor' stoves inside the van with your 11LB can... do you have a pressure regulator on your canister?

Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:48 pm

This is a very old and well covered topic here so if you really want to know what people do and how they do it just search.

Yes, a regulator is required for all propane cookers. The pressure inside any liquid propane container is too high for safe direct use at the stove burner. Sometimes it is built into the appliance, other times it is at the tank.

A Vanagon vendor recently added a 1 lb inside setup for people wishing to discard their rusted or leaking external tanks and who no longer have the 3 way fridge. It hooks right to the stove with a hose and has standard BBQ regulator at 1 lb tank with a small brass adapter for the 1lb. Is it safe? Compared to what?

Mark

Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:54 pm

OK, problem resolved... the stove I want in fact IS suitable for indoor use. I just have to buy the pressure regulator.
The girl I talked to had got confused because the add for that stove at HOME DEPOT had a mistake on it.

Thu Sep 12, 2019 2:06 pm

Here is a hose/regulator setup sold to allow a Westy stove to use 1 lb propane canisters inside the van.

http://north-westy.com/north-westy-parts/lp-elimination-kit

Mark

Thu Sep 12, 2019 2:15 pm

No fuel stove is approved for use in a non ventilated area, at least not in the US

Thu Sep 12, 2019 2:41 pm

Here's a source for more durable water tanks in various sizes. I got a pair for my project (still unfinished) and am very pleased with the construction. Still working out details on tubing the water out of the supply and draining it back to the waste tank.

https://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=23334&catid=934

Jim

Thu Sep 12, 2019 5:52 pm

Another source for water tanks is the Marine industry (for boats).

I ended up buying this tank. It's designed to stack so its square with no protruding spouts, etc.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0002IW6JS?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_image

Thu Sep 12, 2019 5:55 pm

crazyvwvanman wrote: Here is a hose/regulator setup sold to allow a Westy stove to use 1 lb propane canisters inside the van.

http://north-westy.com/north-westy-parts/lp-elimination-kit

Mark

She was saying that the OUTDOOR stoves have a pressure reducer built in that can't be eliminated... so that if you have a pressure reducer at the canister the pressure will get reduced twice which is too much. So you could only use such a stove WITHOUT a pressure reducer at the canister - which would result in the extremely high pressure line [something which is considered safe outdoors but unsafe indoors] [of course the term "safe" is just relative].

Thu Sep 12, 2019 6:00 pm

jimf909 wrote: Another source for water tanks is the Marine industry (for boats).

I ended up buying this tank. It's designed to stack so its square with no protruding spouts, etc.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0002IW6JS?psc=1&ref=ppx_pop_mob_b_asin_image

That's really nice... and BIG. Would fit well under the stove.
What I like about the one I will order is that it has a tap/"faucet" which means I can eliminate buying and setting up a faucet and pump > and it won't need electricity. It will have it's very own wood "box" and I can pad this will therefore I can't see it cracking anytime soon. It won't be being removed at all. I am more concerned about the "tap"'"faucet" (plastic) waring out.

Thu Sep 12, 2019 6:08 pm

As I said previously,

"Yes, a regulator is required for all propane cookers. The pressure inside any liquid propane container is too high for safe direct use at the stove burner. Sometimes it is built into the appliance, other times it is at the tank."

"All of the portable stoves I have say they are for outside use. "

If I build a kitchen into a van I don't build in a portable stove. I build in one meant for inside use.

Here is an example.

Mark