TheSamba.com :: View topic - Double-Double’s Adventure Bug Build

Sun Nov 03, 2019 8:10 pm

Interesting product. What is the difference between these and notched spring plates? Are they stronger? I might be misguided but I have this belief that the stock stuff is better quality than the aftermarket stuff. Just a gut belief thing, no scientific evidence.

Sun Nov 03, 2019 9:29 pm

joe cool wrote: Interesting product. What is the difference between these and notched spring plates? Are they stronger? I might be misguided but I have this belief that the stock stuff is better quality than the aftermarket stuff. Just a gut belief thing, no scientific evidence.

3/16” on stock, 1/4” thick on atomwerk grade 50 spring steel. Definitely should be stronger than 51 year old plates. But difference between these and notched? I dunno. Just giving them a try and see what happens. Only out $250 with bushings if I don’t like them. Not a huge investment. But they are said to retain stock ride in the rear while raising 2”. Gonna be a while before my car is all back together so I won’t be able to let you know until then and I get some miles under my belt. All I know is even if it does the same thing as notched plates, I feel more comfortable with these given how thick they are and they don’t have all that material missing from the notching. Taking one for the team here guys, so give me a bit of time to do some evidence collecting and I will report back. Like I said worse case scenario I put the stock ones back on. Like I said before Jennifer was a real “salt of the earth” type person to deal with and so because of that and their customer service TO ME, I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and give their products a try. If anything, I made a local VW friend!

I disagree that stock is ALWAYS better or stronger, I mean the entire car is the product of a war time environment and engineering. It’s pretty much bare minimum even at that time so I think there is a lot of room for improvement. But we shall see. Stay tuned!

Sun Nov 03, 2019 11:45 pm

With the atomwerk spring plates, you have to run CV joints with more angle than stock CV's. I think Thing or Bus CV's work. That also means getting 100 mm stub axles and transmission drive flanges. You don't get more travel than stock spring plates, but you do get more ride height. Lastly, you need longer than stock shocks.

Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:36 am

Dark Earth wrote: With the atomwerk spring plates, you have to run CV joints with more angle than stock CV's. I think Thing or Bus CV's work. That also means getting 100 mm stub axles and transmission drive flanges. You don't get more travel than stock spring plates, but you do get more ride height. Lastly, you need longer than stock shocks.

I am going with 944 setup. A lot easier for me to get brand new lifetime warranty complete cv axles and for a cheap price. The rest of the conversion is cheap too. I will only have to spend about $200 per side. That’s pretty cheap! Not much price difference between 944 and just stock stuff, so a no brainer in my opinion. Shocks will just have to measure when I get to that point.

Mon Nov 04, 2019 6:35 am

Let us see when they are all mounted up. And yes, no added travel, I wonder why they don't make these shaped/notched for more travel.

Glad you got the "salt of the earth" person. I got the owner Mr. Adam via email and he was a high and mighty condescending jerk who couldn't help me with a simple question. I had to "just take the word of an expert" who "had thousands of them out there". Just a terrible experience that the right picture would have solved but how dare a simple man like me question him.

The next day I notched mine.

Mon Nov 04, 2019 8:14 am

frankydee wrote: Let us see when they are all mounted up. And yes, no added travel, I wonder why they don't make these shaped/notched for more travel.

Glad you got the "salt of the earth" person. I got the owner Mr. Adam via email and he was a high and mighty condescending jerk who couldn't help me with a simple question. I had to "just take the word of an expert" who "had thousands of them out there". Just a terrible experience that the right picture would have solved but how dare a simple man like me question him.

The next day I notched mine.

I didn’t want more travel, I wanted stock ride with the lift and that’s what I am getting just like I am getting with the thing front end. I am not racing, I am not jumping, I am just exploring and heading to National Parks and State Parks with my daughter and fishing access roads to get some alone time, so I am getting exactly what I wanted. But I still believe these will be stronger than my 51 year old stock plates that are fatigued and have been cut to relieve the lower lip. I have the money, so why not try them? I am not really doing a traditional restoration or Baja, so I prefer to try new products and techniques (such as the whole thing getting Raptor Liner inside and out, and some other things I have up my sleeve). I just want the easiest way I can mount the smaller sets of BFG KO2 I can on my bug, regardless of what it costs me monetarily.

The plates seemed like a superior way of accomplishing what I wanted to do in my particular situation and here we are.

I am sorry you had a bad experience, maybe they will improve on customer service or he was having a bad day? I dunno can’t speak for them and not really my place. Just putting it out there, I had a good experience and was willing to share. Look forward to seeing the progress on your project as well.

In all honesty it would be easier to go the proven route and just copy other people’s setups on the forum. I could have every part ordered and ready to go to slap on, but I wanted to try something different and I enjoy supporting a local company and small business.

I have four months to get the paint and chassis done before my daughter is here, as I don’t want her exposed to those chemicals and smells permeating my house, and so that is my timeline for this part of the project. Wiring and interior will be easy to do day projects and not as labor intensive.

Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:20 am

I've heard these shocks might work for the atomwerk conversion ...

https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/b/gas-a-just-41...turer=true

https://www.kyb.com/catalog/?y=1984&make=Volkswagen&model=Vanagon&submodel=Campmobile

You're right though, you'll need to measure when you get to that point.

Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:24 am

Dark Earth wrote: I've heard these shocks might work for the atomwerk conversion ...

https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/b/gas-a-just-41...turer=true

You're right though, you'll need to measure when you get to that point.

Thanks, I will keep those in mind. I bet they are pretty good for the money. I was planning on measuring, purchasing a cheap shock off amazon or Walmart or whatever and test fitting it, and then going through the Bilstein catalog to find the corresponding one that matches what I fit, but we will see. I realize this Atomwerk conversion is kind of undocumented so I imagine there will be a bit of guess and check going on, but I don't think anymore so than anyone else with a notched spring plate, other than they have examples to go off of.

My plan for the CVs is as follows:
https://weddleindustries.com/products/1000186/1001853 x2
https://www.nexgenoffroad.com/product-p/525101.htm x2
https://www.autozone.com/drivetrain/cv-axle/duralast-gold-cv-axle/666891_0_0_3498_78919 x2

Mon Nov 04, 2019 2:32 pm

Are you going to get disk brakes or stick with the drums. I'm doing pretty much the same build on my 70. I managed to get a full thing beam for 400 and already got everything to do the pans, but then ruptured a disk and haven't been able to do anything. Really looking forward to the atomwerks install i thought they were gone forever after the thread from hell.

Mon Nov 04, 2019 2:54 pm

hetrickmatthew wrote: Are you going to get disk brakes or stick with the drums. I'm doing pretty much the same build on my 70. I managed to get a full thing beam for 400 and already got everything to do the pans, but then ruptured a disk and haven't been able to do anything. Really looking forward to the atomwerks install i thought they were gone forever after the thread from hell.

Funny you should mention vertebrae problems. In June I had a seizure for the first time and fell and injured my neck bad. I couldn’t even walk, drive nothing up until middle of last month so I am like six months behind on my build.

Regarding Atomwerks, when I was there they said they were bought by a local company who was supposed to manage them. This company was promising 10,000 piece orders at a time to Mid-America Motorworks and whatnot. Anyways, sounds like bad management and over promising ran them into the ground. Charles then either retained his trademarks or bought them back, not sure which, and is rebuilding the company from the ground up again retaining ownership and production capabilities himself. They said they are adding new staff in a new location and have ordered a bunch of new CNC machines to get off the ground running this time.

I am planning on running the drums for now but with all new wheel cylinders and master cylinder and all the hardware and lines and hoses. I don’t see a whole lot of reason to switch to drums at this point unless you count convenience by way of not having to adjust them. I don’t have a problem with drums and will just check and adjust them every time I change my oil, along with my valves. I figure if it’s good enough for the Baja 1000 it’s good enough for what I am doing. Plus, I want to see how tired and everything are fitting before I go about making my beam widths even wider. If I did switch to discs it would be something like the Wilwood kits, definitely not EMPI, or run adapter plates for Ghia disc brakes.

Managed to get my Thing parts cleaned up enough I can now proceed to sand blast them without making a huge mess, after I press the old ball joints out.

Mon Nov 04, 2019 4:52 pm

Make sure you take a punch and mark the orientation of the ball joints before pressing out

Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:09 pm

frankydee wrote: Make sure you take a punch and mark the orientation of the ball joints before pressing out

I’m going to have to take detailed pictures with measurements because they are going to be powder coated with hammer finish so I need a way to see any mark through that.

Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:45 pm

A few of the ball joints on my thing arms were definitely ruined when they were pressed out. I was replacing them anyway but just a heads up they may not come out easy.
You might consider welding travel stops onto you front arms

Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:54 pm

dirtkeeper wrote: A few of the ball joints on my thing arms were definitely ruined when they were pressed out. I was replacing them anyway but just a heads up they may not come out easy.
You might consider welding travel stops onto you front arms

I have some Heyd, German made heavy duty, ones on hand. I am just getting rid of the old ones. They still feel tight, but it doesn’t matter I already bought $200 worth of new ball joint so I might as well use them.

Mon Nov 04, 2019 10:14 pm

Dark Earth wrote: I've heard these shocks might work for the atomwerk conversion ...

https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/b/gas-a-just-41...turer=true

https://www.kyb.com/catalog/?y=1984&make=Volkswagen&model=Vanagon&submodel=Campmobile

You're right though, you'll need to measure when you get to that point.

If that is correct, the. I think I will get the Bilstein yellow 4600 HDs all the way around. I should be able to use the stock bug ones in the front but for the rear I may go with these:

https://www.shockwarehouse.com/site/product.cfm/id...-24-008303

Mon Nov 04, 2019 11:41 pm

Double-Double wrote: Dark Earth wrote: I've heard these shocks might work for the atomwerk conversion ...

https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/b/gas-a-just-41...turer=true

https://www.kyb.com/catalog/?y=1984&make=Volkswagen&model=Vanagon&submodel=Campmobile

You're right though, you'll need to measure when you get to that point.

If that is correct, the. I think I will get the Bilstein yellow 4600 HDs all the way around. I should be able to use the stock bug ones in the front but for the rear I may go with these:

https://www.shockwarehouse.com/site/product.cfm/id...-24-008303

According to an old KYB spreadsheet, the KYB KG5557 has an extended length of 20.83", and a compressed length of 12.95" for a 7.87" stroke. I'm not sure about the bilsteins, but be sure to measure both the extended and the compressed distances from the upper shock mount center to the lower shock mount center. Stock length bilsteins for the rear (24-000345) are 16.2" extended, 10.84" compressed for a 5.36" stroke. I think you'll want a shock that has at least a 5.36" stroke. So, if your extended distance is 18.31" to 20.83", you'll have a stroke of 5.36" or more with the KYB's. The bilsteins might have the same measurements as the KYB's but i'm not sure about that. At any rate, you should take some measurements first.

Tue Nov 05, 2019 9:13 am

Dark Earth wrote: Double-Double wrote: Dark Earth wrote: I've heard these shocks might work for the atomwerk conversion ...

https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/b/gas-a-just-41...turer=true

https://www.kyb.com/catalog/?y=1984&make=Volkswagen&model=Vanagon&submodel=Campmobile

You're right though, you'll need to measure when you get to that point.

If that is correct, the. I think I will get the Bilstein yellow 4600 HDs all the way around. I should be able to use the stock bug ones in the front but for the rear I may go with these:

https://www.shockwarehouse.com/site/product.cfm/id...-24-008303

According to an old KYB spreadsheet, the KYB KG5557 has an extended length of 20.83", and a compressed length of 12.95" for a 7.87" stroke. I'm not sure about the bilsteins, but be sure to measure both the extended and the compressed distances from the upper shock mount center to the lower shock mount center. Stock length bilsteins for the rear (24-000345) are 16.2" extended, 10.84" compressed for a 5.36" stroke. I think you'll want a shock that has at least a 5.36" stroke. So, if your extended distance is 18.31" to 20.83", you'll have a stroke of 5.36" or more with the KYB's. The bilsteins might have the same measurements as the KYB's but i'm not sure about that. At any rate, you should take some measurements first.

And in the rear you can have a longer stroke than what you actually need because of the bump stops back there right?

Tue Nov 05, 2019 11:13 am

Double-Double wrote: frankydee wrote: Make sure you take a punch and mark the orientation of the ball joints before pressing out

I’m going to have to take detailed pictures with measurements because they are going to be powder coated with hammer finish so I need a way to see any mark through that.

Thing arms already have factory forged in marks to align too, you can always make them clearer to see though.

Tue Nov 05, 2019 11:57 am

oldschool5er wrote: Double-Double wrote: frankydee wrote: Make sure you take a punch and mark the orientation of the ball joints before pressing out

I’m going to have to take detailed pictures with measurements because they are going to be powder coated with hammer finish so I need a way to see any mark through that.

Thing arms already have factory forged in marks to align too, you can always make them clearer to see though.

I was thinking of doing that but I didn’t want to take a chance at compromising the integrity of the arms. Maybe just file the mark a little bit wider?

Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:54 pm

Anyone know how easy it is to eliminate the throttle positioned setup like this? I already removed all the evaporation system bits. I want my car as simple as possible.