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busben Wed Nov 06, 2019 6:41 am

Ok. This is a new one to me despite having owned a few deluxes, both barndoor and later.

I was reading a thread on the "split buses" forum when I came across reference to a cable tube for the wiring loom on deluxe buses. I'm currently working on my deluxe project and could do with some more details in terms of conduit size, where it sits, how far it extends from the pans, etc. Basically as much information as possible please!!!!

Photo was posted by Everett on the above mentioned thread, but is not original so for reference only:


EmpiGT Wed Nov 06, 2019 3:48 pm

It's not a deluxe only feature. It's any bus that had belly pans. Double doors and sunroof busses. So should be in the duraclean bus too.

BeaterBarndoor Wed Nov 06, 2019 6:56 pm

I have an original tube from a 60 that I can get some specs from but it may take some time as I am in the midst of a shop move and will need to dig around for it. So if itís not urgent....

busben Thu Nov 07, 2019 2:34 am

EmpiGT wrote: It's not a deluxe only feature. It's any bus that had belly pans. Double doors and sunroof busses. So should be in the duraclean bus too.

100% dude, (I was careful with the thread title 8) ). I can only imagine that this detail is missing on a lot of modern restorations where the centre chassis is replaced. I spoke to a few UK restorers about it and they were all unaware. I want to get this right moving forward and yeh, Duraclean needs it for sure! :wink:

busben Thu Nov 07, 2019 2:36 am

BeaterBarndoor wrote: I have an original tube from a 60 that I can get some specs from but it may take some time as I am in the midst of a shop move and will need to dig around for it. So if itís not urgent....

Yes please dude. Whilst I could do with the details as soon as possible, so far youíre the only help I have on this ..... so Iíll wait, thank you very much :wink:

busben Thu Nov 07, 2019 6:50 am

Seems I'm not alone in this quest:

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=727560

one from the gallery ÖÖÖ

"1957 Euro Deluxe main wiring harness
Here are some pictures of the main wiring harness as it travels from front to back. There is a large tab that wraps pretty firmly around the wire bundle near the middle of the right side frame rail.
Here is the main harness exiting the covered channel in the right side frame rail just behind the front crossmember.
Note there is no tube as some have suggested." :?



:? :?

busben Thu Nov 07, 2019 6:56 am

Ö.and a couple of photos from the bullikartei forum.





So, does this exist on all belly pan buses? or introduced in a certain year? or??

:?

sled Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:08 am

it looks pretty evident to me that the welding on the crossmember is not original, so I would be suspect of the belly pans and/or wiring originality.

every belly pan bus Ive seen taken apart had the conduit

Do we really think the factory would install the main wiring harness in a BARE METAL bus before welding the floor or belly pans on?? We know they were dipped in primer...I doubt that was done with the wiring harness in place?


busben wrote:



DSweinhagen Thu Nov 07, 2019 4:09 pm

All belly pan buses had the conduit. The '52 Deluxe I'm working on now does, so I'm pretty sure it started from the beginning. It looks just like the above pictures... Just a straight piece of tube running barely past the frame close outs at each end and tacked there. Then a tab in the middle tacked to the frame and the tube to keep it from rattling. I think the original tubing size was like 3/4" or 20mm. If I have to replace it I've used a little larger size tubing as some new wiring harnesses can be tight going through.

busben Thu Nov 07, 2019 4:12 pm

sled wrote: it looks pretty evident to me that the welding on the crossmember is not original, so I would be suspect of the belly pans and/or wiring originality.


Thatís a fair comment dude.

sled wrote: every belly pan bus Ive seen taken apart had the conduit


Interesting. Iíve never noticed them on a bus, and certainly never saw my old welder install them on a deluxe ..... but then the guy who used to do my welding isnít really a ďdetailĒ kind of guy and probably wouldnít have known without being told. Itís nice to have confirmation from you, and others, on this, and I also agree with your factory comments. I just need some measurements now although I can get a pretty good idea from the photos tbh :wink:

Every dayís a school day eh! :lol:

busben Thu Nov 07, 2019 4:14 pm

DSweinhagen wrote: All belly pan buses had the conduit. The '52 Deluxe I'm working on now does, so I'm pretty sure it started from the beginning. It looks just like the above pictures... Just a straight piece of tube running barely past the frame close outs at each end and tacked there. Then a tab in the middle tacked to the frame and the tube to keep it from rattling. I think the original tubing size was like 3/4" or 20mm. If I have to replace it I've used a little larger size tubing as some new wiring harnesses can be tight going through.

Great info. Thanks so much for this :D Nice to get this right for the first time! :oops:

BeaterBarndoor Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:44 am

Dug it out.
a couple shots and some specs on a sheet. not super accurate but close enough to get the idea.

I use our(USA) 3/4" galvanized electrical conduit when I make them. Its slightly larger in diameter and a tiny bit thicker but does the job.

The original I have has quite a bend/kink in it , this is how it was when I removed it from the chassis. I didnt find it necessary to have that great of a bend to the ones I have installed. Basically just bend enough to follow the frame rails as they transition front to rear.
The flare is at the rear of the bus.










djfordmanjack Fri Nov 08, 2019 4:22 pm

JFYI guys, the 22x1mm (20mm ID) tubing is the same size as the original shift rods. it is still easily available in Europe.

Tizian Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:23 pm

busben wrote: Ö.and a couple of photos from the bullikartei forum.





So, does this exist on all belly pan buses? or introduced in a certain year? or??

:?

Nice to see my bus referenced here ;-)

I found another one where you can see the bend. It appears to be be on the same spot where the main frame bends, which makes sense.



Since you donít have acces to this area once the pans are welded in, those tubes are necessary to get the looms installed afterwards - upon first installation or repair reasons. But itís a pain getting the loom in there.

I decided to go for detachable pans to have access afterwards.

Lowdown Dirty Rat Sat Nov 09, 2019 8:33 am

Can someone post a pic of where the loom would enter and exit the tube.
Thanks.

busben Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:32 am

Hey!! Thanks everyone, superb info.

Mark ..... youíre a legend dude :D

RockStock Fri Nov 29, 2019 2:35 am

Just to confirm my Feb 55 Deluxe has the loom tube.

Here is an original loom tube as seen on the June 1953 Greek School Bus (a Deluxe).
Picture is looking forwards towards the front right jackpoint area.




The tube sits up high in the rhs chassis rail.
Because of this location (as well as being covered by the belly pans), it is very rarely photographed.

Looks like the wiring tabs are still there, but unused.
Utilised for a naked harness, but redundant when the solid tube is fitted.

A theory as to why only the rear of the tube is flared is that the loom is threaded through from the rear, and the softer flaring will not cut into the loom.

RockStock Fri Nov 29, 2019 3:35 am

Wiring Loom route detail, front





Schematic on how I think the loom/tube sits:

I'm guessing the naked loom just sits on the bottom of the arch there.

busben Fri Nov 29, 2019 11:12 am

Thanks dude :wink:

djfordmanjack Fri Nov 29, 2019 6:35 pm

I still wonder how the loom is routed inside the rear kickup and if it goes under or over the torsion bar housing tube. and how in the world would it be fed in the loom tubing even with a flare. it is difficult enough to feed a leading wire and the loom on a bus without bellypans. When I built my (belly pan) chassis I put a 2mm steel wire in while building the rails, so I can later pull the wire loom. I wonder if they had somehting similar in Wolfsburg.



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