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Adriel Rowley Mon Mar 02, 2020 8:50 pm

Chickensoup wrote: Adriel Rowley wrote: Brazilian isn't as good as German, mostly because of the metallurgy was lackluster until recently. There was a time when Brazilian and Mexican parts were all that was available. I wouldn't worry, especially if don't need to be turned. Now if chatter, then do worry of course. I am going with a questionable rear drum on Ruby for now until can take her out and check it.

I and many others have had great success with SiliKroil, even to help frozen rings. Also, for getting rid of rust, many including myself love EvapoRust. The 3.5 gallon has the handy basket. Toss in rusty hardware and an hour later no rust.

Ok cool, now youíve led me to ask a few more questions.

Fine, enjoy paying forward best can.

Chickensoup wrote: 1. How can i tell if my drums are out of spec or out of round? Will i have to try them on and see?

Depends on if have a dial guage and a way to rotate the drum while measure or have a shop that can check. Ages ago CarQuest used to check and turn drums, though seems went out of business as haven't seen one in a long time. You have a caliper, right? At least can check the depth is within specification. And if don't, highly recommend as not that expensive (especially used) and myself use for all sorts. For me, I don't find removing the drums that bad (about 15 minutes for each) and rather not spend hours trying to find a place (and if one is bad, then will get new Italian drums and know all set for a very long time which is matched side to side).

Chickensoup wrote: 2. Can you reuse evaporust? Ive seen the end results and they seem to end up well.

Can be reused until no longer converting.

Chickensoup wrote: 3. Media blasting vs evaporust? Can i degrease then primer, paint, black oxide, whatever i want to protect the items after using evaporust?

EvapoRust does create a protective coating. Instructions say after dipping to rinse, then dip, and wipe, though I don't bother rinsing (I am working outside with no water handy and kind of in a hurry...).

The nice thing about EvapoRust is that it does not remove paint and can be used on parts that are too small to blast. For example, wanted to keep the patina in the interior yet stop the rust, so dipped the parking brake handle in, now has the warn paint and clean treated metal. Just putting out there for anyone else reading, in case be useful.

I do not know why would do EvapoRust and then phosphoric acid, unless the rust was horrendous (as I understand, phosphoric needs some iron oxide to convert). The finish isn't super shiny, dull grey that gets darker the longer leave in, to a certain point. If remember, can get you a picture.

If was going to prime and paint, would do the initial degrease, one hour soak, rinse well, degrease, then treat as would bare metal. Never painted after treating, just knowing how the coating is, wouldn't work with paint. I bet plating be about the same, since it too requires spotless metal.

Chickensoup wrote: Thank you

No problem.

hewica8 Tue Mar 03, 2020 10:58 am

Nice work so far! So, I pulled my front suspension out the other day and noticed the front fender well area and was thinking again about what you brought up in my thread. After examining it more closely, you are absolutely right, my fender well area is not stock/untouched. In fact, I now see that the nose of my car was punched in on the left side. The vertical rusty crease is only on the left, and the right is completely smooth in this area. It's funny though because everything still lines up nicely and from the outside all body lines and panels look perfect. My only guess is the bumper took a hit and this area where the crease developed is the weak point. Your car supports that because it looks like you have an identical crease. It is neat though to discover parts of the car's past that I overlooked initially.


Chickensoup Tue Mar 03, 2020 11:40 am

hewica8 wrote: Nice work so far! So, I pulled my front suspension out the other day and noticed the front fender well area and was thinking again about what you brought up in my thread. After examining it more closely, you are absolutely right, my fender well area is not stock/untouched. In fact, I now see that the nose of my car was punched in on the left side. The vertical rusty crease is only on the left, and the right is completely smooth in this area. It's funny though because everything still lines up nicely and from the outside all body lines and panels look perfect. My only guess is the bumper took a hit and this area where the crease developed is the weak point. Your car supports that because it looks like you have an identical crease. It is neat though to discover parts of the car's past that I overlooked initially.



I never considered thinking of the possibility that the bumper could of creased the side apron. I think you absolutely right :D that would explain why my passenger side has this crease while the area surrounding it looks to be ok. As for yours, if the fenders line up correctly as well as the bumper, there isnít really a need to fix it i guess. But ya, i had a feeling something was a bit fishy when i compared the two sides of your car. Looks like another mystery has been solved. Bug On :bug_orange:

Chickensoup Tue Mar 03, 2020 6:46 pm

Today i was blessed because my teachers gave me very minimal amounts of homework so i was able to get a solid hour in tonight. first off, my bearing arrived... they appear to be old, old, Metal Leve bearings. Its shelf worn for sure but it should clean up nicely.


i also started disassembly of my beam and have a few concerns as well a questions.


first. i repositioned my vise so i could work on it easier.


next i started off with the usual, removing the drum assembly.

then i continued forward and removed the link pins.


This is a comparison between the old vw pins and the NOS MOOB link pins. They look very similar is design but i will take measurements of the moob's before i install them... it may be useful to someone. idk. aside from that though, i am very happy that i decided to replace them b/c mine are pretty crusty.



BUT...... :? here are my issues.
#1- my drum has ridges in the ID. like rotors on disk brake cars, does this mean that they will need replacing or as someone mentioned previously, they could be machined?? not only are they visible, but i can feel them too and they seem pretty darn deep. sorry if this is a dumb question. the drum brake stuff is new to me.
#2- So, like my old BJ beam, my tie rod ends are being stubborn. is there a special trick im missing? i haven't tried penetrating oil and heat yet but that's what i plan on. i tried to mock up my universal style puller but i couldn't find a secure place to mount the arms.



Now, as for my rust issues, the only problems are the passenger side heater channel, and the corresponding front outer firewall area. I checked it out over and over again and poked and wire wheels and so on. there is still lots of meat left. id say about 80% is still solid. and yes, i know some may disagree with my plan and tell me that it would be wiser to buy a new heater channel but A. i want as much german metal as possible. B the only channel i would buy would be a klassic fab unit but i cant see me paying for one neither do i see myself buying an inaccurate and poor quality danish piece. So, my sketch isn't fancy by any means at all but it gives a brief idea of what parts of the heater channel need patching. remember please. this isnt a top quality trailer queen. i figured that since i will be replacing the whole bottom plate although not needed, this will give me plenty of access to weld, apply rust preventatives, etc while its open. The toughest part will be shaping the area for the heater tube inlet but i think it can be done. if all fails, then i can just save up for a nice unit.

whoo... update complete 8)

thanks in advance

Adriel Rowley Tue Mar 03, 2020 7:22 pm

I remembered to take the picture after a long day, so might be too dark?



Progress looks great!

Chickensoup Wed Mar 04, 2020 5:22 pm

Somehow, i managed to jam in around 25 minutes this afternoon. Like yesterday, i continued wrenching away on the beam and i noticed something... arent these a later style wheel bearing?? im not sure but thats how i remember my ball joint ones looking. EDIT- never mind, sorry... i think that these are correct according to here... https://www.pacificcustoms.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Sc...l-bearings

anywhoo...

i labled various parts just be be safe,

found a grodie old as dirt nest,

and heres where im at...

BUT... Thats not all :D So, i have a vertical head attachment coming in the mail. well, its not mine but i will be using it. in exchange for being able to use "Big Frank" as its called, i will being re-wiring it, and installing a DRO kit as well as a 3 phase converter. This mill WW2 machine used to make gun parts. So much to accomplish with this beauty :D :D :D :D :D :D


thats all, just inching forward whenever i can.

Adriel Rowley Wed Mar 04, 2020 5:34 pm

Hey, I just realized missed your previous questions and now see more. Late to eating, unless someone else answers, been back later.

Adriel Rowley Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:01 pm

Chickensoup wrote: [...]
This is a comparison between the old vw pins and the NOS MOOB link pins. They look very similar is design but i will take measurements of the moob's before i install them... it may be useful to someone. idk. aside from that though, i am very happy that i decided to replace them b/c mine are pretty crusty.

How about using anti-seize grease to prevent future rust? Which reminds me need to order a new tube, been using it on every thread and when installing the front races in the drums (so don't rust into the bore again and then used Liqui Moly All Purpose for the bearings). If interested, here is one source: https://smile.amazon.com/Liqui-Moly-508-Anti-Seize...amp;sr=8-1


Chickensoup wrote: [...]
#1- my drum has ridges in the ID. like rotors on disk brake cars, does this mean that they will need replacing or as someone mentioned previously, they could be machined?? not only are they visible, but i can feel them too and they seem pretty darn deep. sorry if this is a dumb question. the drum brake stuff is new to me.

If you can feel something, it is greater than one thousandth of an inch. As for machining, is there enough left? I know seen the specification somewhere, bet online. Worse case, find a place that can turn them and see what they say. This is where miss Russ Wolfe, may he rest in peace.


Chickensoup wrote: #2- So, like my old BJ beam, my tie rod ends are being stubborn. is there a special trick im missing? i haven't tried penetrating oil and heat yet but that's what i plan on. i tried to mock up my universal style puller but i couldn't find a secure place to mount the arms.

Here is the tool have used before (the previous I broke and had replaced under warranty, though almost as difficult as pulling chicken teeth).

Hammer the "sharp" end between the arm and the boot.

For myself, I get the stem as hot as possible, get the beard out of the danger zone, then douse with WD-40, which might do a little puff so have a wet rag just in case, basically heat shocking and drawing the water dispersant in (I use inferior product as inexpensive). Then, I spray with Kroil or SiliKroil, move to the next. When come back and for some reason not budging, another application of SiliKroil and let it sit over night.

Adriel Rowley Wed Mar 04, 2020 8:09 pm

Chickensoup wrote: Somehow, i managed to jam in around 25 minutes this afternoon. Like yesterday, i continued wrenching away on the beam and i noticed something... arent these a later style wheel bearing?? im not sure but thats how i remember my ball joint ones looking. EDIT- never mind, sorry... i think that these are correct according to here... https://www.pacificcustoms.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Sc...l-bearings

Will say what Eric of Bughaus told me: the type of bearing should match inner and outer. By the way, if ordering parts, highly recommend and is preferred source, mostly because of the amazing customer service.

As said in Ruby's build thread, if have to put in new races and bearings (they should be done as a set), a welder makes removal to where drop out. Heat the drums in the oven at 350*F for about 15 minutes and the races in the freezer over night, taking out the races as needed, makes it so the races just about drop in, couple taps with a socket. Very easy and preparation takes most of the time. Just be sure to set them strait.

Hope this helps.

Chickensoup Thu Mar 05, 2020 5:07 am

Thanks for the help again, but, what would that puller be called? Also, I think I'm gonna look for new drums and keep these just in case.

Thanks

Adriel Rowley Thu Mar 05, 2020 7:44 am

Chickensoup wrote: Thanks for the help again, but, what would that puller be called? Also, I think I'm gonna look for new drums and keep these just in case.

Thanks

Lot of options.
Bet Kragen has one to rent, might be in a front end tool set
Borrow my new one with a deposit
Borrow my spare which one of us needs to find a bolt to fit (broke the swivel end and instead of sending a part, sent a whole unit)
Or purchase one: https://www.zoro.com/otc-universal-tie-rod-end-rem...lsrc=aw.ds
Bet can guess which will choose, though thought to toss all them out there. :P

Totally understand buying new, myself probably could have the rear(s) turned if were an issue, though like you, buy new instead. If needed, will purchase Italian IAP from RockAuto as seem to be the best price for quality (going by the good suppliers offer), here is the fronts: https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=5473500&cc=1351842&jsn=2180.

Hope this helps. :)

Chickensoup Thu Mar 12, 2020 4:42 pm

As you all know, this coronavirus is becoming more serious little by little. BUT, being a student, I have an advantage, well not really. Basically, I have 10 days work non stop on my little dub :D 8) asides from tomarow. Today however, I crammed in another 1hr and disassembled almost all of my beam except for my stupid tie rod ends :evil: I outa try heat next tho.


AND WE HAVE NEEDLE BEARINGS :D no micarta crap for me!!

1 last thing... am I the only one who finds playing with bearing grease satisfying? Lol. But for reals, I'm not kidding.

Oh, and does any one know of any vw machine shops or any machine shops that can ream my king pin bushings? I live near monroe... 1hr away from Atlanta. Does anyone have any experience with how much it would cost me to do a pair?

Thanks

ZEKE65 Thu Mar 12, 2020 7:23 pm

The Micarta is used for the inner bearings, along with the roller outer bearings. Look down inside the tube to see what kind of inner bearings are there.

Chickensoup Fri Mar 13, 2020 5:09 pm

well, im still knocking out the dirty tasks. I 97% disassembled my beam today as well as rewarded my self by doing some painting and for once, it turned out decent.

BTW, this stuff works amazing, but... the price tag is 15 bucks a pop so it ooks like i wont be buying any more of this stuff.

labeled my torsion stacks w/ colored zip ties.

replaced my broken zirk fitting with one from my BJ beam. and yes, i didnt break this one this time :lol:

Also, if you dont know what to do with your nast greasy torsion stacks, a contractor bag works well. Just make sure no one throws em out tho :D

primed

painted

wahla...

here's the little surprise the beam left me just from the dismantling process. next time i will be laying down some cardboard.

ive been tempted to purchase some urethane tie rod end bushing/end caps/seals/dust caps from bugpack b/c ive been told that they stiffen up the feel. has anyone tested these/used them before? from my understanding their main purpose is to keep dust and anything else from going inside and into the ball.

hewica8 Sat Mar 14, 2020 2:58 pm

Nice work on the beam. I'm doing the same thing right now! I did cut mine in half, however, to add in adjusters. Are you modifying the suspension at all on yours, or doing a stock style restoration?

Chickensoup Sat Mar 14, 2020 3:02 pm

hewica8 wrote: Nice work on the beam. I'm doing the same thing right now! I did cut mine in half, however, to add in adjusters. Are you modifying the suspension at all on yours, or doing a stock style restoration?

Ya, I too am welding in sway away style adjusters. I'll have to touch up with some paint after but I decided to get the painting done while the weather is good.

Chickensoup Sat Mar 14, 2020 4:35 pm

So far so good. Just making slow progress and as I go I'm starting to understand how much time it takes to perform these task. I'm still working on cleaning and painting various suspension parts.



Had some help from the ultrasonic cleaner

So with my steering box, I got most of the big chunks off and started scrub away but I feel that I need so dissembled it a little more as the steering wheel shaft side is prohibiting me from cleaning as small pocket next to the seal.

Sprayed some hardware with rust converter. Still deciding whether or not I want to apply a top coat.

Uhhhh. So much more to go :cry: lol.

Good night shop

Chickensoup Mon Mar 16, 2020 6:14 pm

I'll tell you what... that chrome spray.... it doesn't really look like chrome :cry: :-s :shock:



is the top cover on the steering box steel or aluminum? b/c when i was using a wire wheel on it, it felt like aluminum.

BTW, using a hand saw on that tubing SUCKS!!! took me over an hour just for the top carrier. i tried a sal-saw but my blades arent fine enough. So yeah, them tubes be thicc. s#%@, that sounds a little weird.

Chickensoup Tue Mar 17, 2020 3:57 pm



Rome Tue Mar 17, 2020 4:18 pm

'soup, on this lower arm, it looks like the bottom bushing insert from your shock absorber bottom mount is still attached to the arm. Just inboard of your threads you see a smooth round "shoulder". That is the piece that "should" come off with the shock absorber, but usually rusts onto the arm.

If you still have that shock lying around, look at the bottom mount. If you see just some tattered rubber that sits inside the round lower mount loop, but don't see the round metal sleeve in the center of the rubber, then that "sleeve" is indeed STUCK on your lower arm. You might be able to get the sleeve off the arm with penetrating fluid sprayed into the end where the threads are, then gripping the sleeve with a tight vise grip and turning. If not, use a chisel on the tangent of the sleeve so that the hammer blows start to rotate the sleeve on the arm. If still not, then best to use heat from a propane or MAP gas torch. Heat to red hot which causes the sleeve to expand on the inner diameter and break the rust bond to the arm. Usually that heat will unfortunately "influence" the fresh paint adjacent.

I've had decent success with "chrome" paint, but the surface I sprayed it onto was smooth. On your steering box, the rough cast surface absorbs any of the glossy shiny content of the spray so that it just looks silver.



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