TheSamba.com :: View topic - Replacing worn engine with a industrial engine

Thu Jan 09, 2020 2:29 am

Hello I have my beat up OG engine pulled from my bus and previously got my hands on a industrial engine with few hours on it. My plan is to use the industrial engine and pull bits and pices from the original engine to get it to work.

But Im not sure exactly what i need to modify.

What I have identifed so far is:
- Rear engine tin
- flywheel and clutch (done)
- Air cleaner (got the complete assembly)

But what about
- Heat exhangers / exhaust / fan shroud.
(I do want heat in my bus, how do i need to modify to get this to work.)

- carburetor?
- distributor? (no vacuum advance unit)
- Fuel pump? OK?

Total newbie when it comes to engine stuff. :oops:

Thu Jan 09, 2020 5:21 am

More pics would be helpful. Its hard to say on heater boxes and muffler. Muffler may work, does it have heater boxes or J tubes? Mine had j tubes. Matching distributor and carb will be important. Fan shroud should be fine if it has the thermostat controlled flaps installed and the thermostat is in place.

I have been running an industrial 36hp engine in my bus for years, they are great! There are some differences to your 1600cc so I cannot comment on everything.

Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:01 am

Ok great, here are some additional photos...
And no heater tubes, these I will remove from the other engine. Thats the plan atleast.

Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:48 am

We'd needto see the front side of the fan housing in order to determine if the thermostat and flaps is in place.

That's either a 26 or 28 PCI Solex carburetor that I don't believe is set up for a vacuum advance distributor.

I would source a German Solex 30 PICT 1 carburetor with the added fuel take off fitting and a 113 905 205 K vacuum advance only distributor. That pairing was factory stock for 1966 1300 through 1967 1500 single port street engines.

Thu Jan 09, 2020 8:11 am

Ill post the pictures as soon as I get home.
Hopefully I have the carburetor and distributor on my original engine...

Thu Jan 09, 2020 8:15 am

Looks to be a AS41 Mexican case so more than likely its a 1600.

Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:20 am

crofty wrote: Looks to be a AS41 Mexican case so more than likely its a 1600.

yeah, the tag says 1584. sweet motor

Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:36 am

Here are some pictures of the back.
So its a good engine?

Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:41 am

I recall reading that industrial engines had a cam profile designed for running at a constant rpm and don't make for good driving engines.

You may need to change the cam shaft and have the heads looked at for valve size.

Please don't quote me on this, I may be complety wrong.

Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:53 am

No thermostat assembly.

Thu Jan 09, 2020 12:27 pm

sub-hatchtim wrote: I recall reading that industrial engines had a cam profile designed for running at a constant rpm and don't make for good driving engines.

You may need to change the cam shaft and have the heads looked at for valve size.

Please don't quote me on this, I may be complety wrong.

I've read that, and then read where others said it's incorrect, same cam. Same on Porsche 912 industrial motors.

Thu Jan 09, 2020 4:06 pm

Your first pic is of the front of the engine as in facing the front of the car. You may have a good long block there- don't know about the cam issue. You top end parts are another story. Carburetor, intake manifold, distributor, fan shroud should be changed out. It's advisible to source the thermostat assembly. You should be ok with coil, generator. you may need different cylinder heads?

Thu Jan 09, 2020 4:25 pm

tasb wrote: Your first pic is of the front of the engine as in facing the front of the car. You may have a good long block there- don't know about the cam issue. You top end parts are another story. Carburetor, intake manifold, distributor, fan shroud should be changed out. It's advisible to source the thermostat assembly. You should be ok with coil, generator. you may need different cylinder heads?

What is the problem with the intake manifold?

Probably could source the rest from my old engine.

Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:16 pm

If the heads are 1500/1600 you'd be all set but that 26/28 PCI was from the 25/36 hp era and if the manifold is too the two don't interchange.

Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:43 pm

better performance with that setup is a 31 pict or equivalent (brosol H30/31) from european 1300 dual port. used with svda (034 or similar) distributor

better to upgrade the generator to a later 30amp one, and selling the 12v 90mm one to some porsche/36h fan

Fri Jan 10, 2020 9:14 am

I've some 40 HP industrial engines. I was told that I could drop them into a car easily but that I might want to change the cams.

That's something that it is a West German badge with a Mexican case. Is that how it came from the factory?

Fri Jan 10, 2020 1:26 pm

Erik G wrote: sub-hatchtim wrote: I recall reading that industrial engines had a cam profile designed for running at a constant rpm and don't make for good driving engines.

You may need to change the cam shaft and have the heads looked at for valve size.

Please don't quote me on this, I may be complety wrong.

I've read that, and then read where others said it's incorrect, same cam. Same on Porsche 912 industrial motors.

I have been running one for almost 7 years. They work just fine. I would go so far as to say its the best VW motor I have had in any of my many aircooleds.

Sat Jan 11, 2020 1:39 am

I recently built up the same engine. It’s the earlier German AS21 case. This engine is quite similar to the early bay window „B“ engine.

Depending on how the result should look like, you do have lots of options completeing your engine. My aim was to have an almost stock looking one for my 67 deluxe with the advantages of the later engine (better case, more power, etc.).

Presuming your aim is similar to mine you will have to choose the correct tinware for your modelyear. There are many changes to them over the years. Check the gallery for your correct setup.

You’ll need the thermostat. Industrial engines don’t have them.

I decided to go for the doghouse fan shroud to have the cooling improvement for the third cylinder. This includes some more changes like larger fan, offset cooler incl. flange and additional tins plus sealings etc.

New crank pulley is needed with corresponding advance marking.

Then of course the heat exchangers. Try to get genuine VW ones, no repops. I was lucky to get hold on two NOS ones. They are the later style though, but do fit.

If you’re installing a carb together with the governor you have to choose the correct intake manifold. Also you might want to go for the bigger 105mm generator. Then you’ll need the correct generator stand aswell. Industrial engines usually came with 90mm gens. The intake manifold for industrial engines doesn’t go with the large generator. There is a version with a slight offset of the intake so the carb travels a bit to the left, creating enough space between carb and gen. Then there is the mentioned variant for the governor (It’s the version „G“ as I recall).

The 12V setup would require the 130 teeth flywheel with 200mm clutch. Don’t forget adjusting the crank endplay here. This is crucial.

I paired a NOS Garbe Lahmeyer distributor (113 905 205 L which I converted to the adjustable „B“ version - thanks to „tasb" here at thesamba) with a NOS 30 PICT-2 carb. This is my result.

There are differences in the cam shafts for industrial/street engines. The valves seem to be the same though. I heard that the springs for the valves are different too (different tension). Nevertheless I haven't experienced any issue driving a similar industrial engine setup in my deluxe for many years previous to this latest one.

-EDIT- I just x-checked some VW references for the partnumbers for cam, valves, etc. They are generally the same as on street versions. But there exist m-codes for industrial engines too, which may leed to deviations. I found a set of pistons and cylinders specific to the industrial version only. So genarally speaken, I guess the standard version of the industrial engine is pretty similar to the street version.

It’s been my daily driver back then for about six years with lots of long distance trips - no props even in the cold of Finnish winter at -30 C daily driven.

So nothing to worry about ;-)

A correct stock 67 setup would be:

30 PICT-1 carburetor
113 905 205 K Bosch distributor
1.5 governor
1500 SP „H“ case with all corresponding tins
„G“ intake manifold
105mm generator plus corresponding stand and oil filler
correct fuel pump
black bosch coil with 12V sticker
red bakelit spark plugs
sticker on fan shroud for valve play
heating hoses from paper/alumium material with correct sealings and clamps (the original clamps do have the VW Logo on them)
12V flywheel, 130 teeth, 200mm clutch
all black matte painted pulleys, covers and tins with slotted srews
textile braided fuel hoses (I’d be careful with those)

Did I forget something?

Sun Jan 12, 2020 2:39 am

Trackomondo,

maybe you post some images of your beaten up engine here aswell. And we can determine which parts will go on your new engine. If your OG engine is all original to your model year, then everything will go plug and play. We will need some pics to tell if that’s the case. I would be careful using all that hardware from your old engine though. I can imagine that those parts will need a whole lot of loving before you can stick those onto your nearly new engine ;-)

Olli

Sun Jan 12, 2020 7:47 am

Thanks for a very informative post @Tizan. My plan is to build a motor with the same intention as you, a reliable engine with a little extra power.

Here are some photos of the original engine.
Thinking about sandblasting the heatexhangers and if possible reuse them.

What could be salvaged from it?

Doghouse fan shoroud with additional parts might be a good uprade?