TheSamba.com :: View topic - Vanagon Electric Power Steering

Wed Oct 05, 2022 11:30 am

steve244 wrote: Earlier discussion indicates the unit, when powered off, will not impair steering.

How will this satisfy your road authorities?

That's a great question! The road authorities in my country are unpredictable. If they reject my application to use the EPAS system on public roads, I will inquire whether disconnecting the power may be a solution that can be approved. That would be far less work than having to physically disconnect the entire steering column to fit the original one (which are basically identical anyway).

I guess I'll have to prove for the road authorities that the unit, when powered off, will not impair steering. The documentation from SHC does not go into details about this, so I'm afraid it's a long shot.

Wed Oct 05, 2022 12:05 pm

vega84 wrote: I guess I'll have to prove for the road authorities that the unit, when powered off, will not impair steering. The documentation from SHC does not go into details about this, so I'm afraid it's a long shot.

You may be better off finding how that unit operates in its original vehicle (Saturn VUE IIRC) when power is lost and showing them that.

In the Prius unit I'm working on it just loses power assist and turns manual.

Wed Oct 05, 2022 7:56 pm

I finished modifying the trim pieces earlier today and and it came together quite easily.
The EPS motor fills the void on the right side of the steering column and with the heater diffuser piece carved out to wrap around it it looks like it was always there. The stock lower column cover was cut in half then the 'blanket' was riveted to it to cover all the fix'ns. While it appears a bit out of place I've already forgotten about it..the EPS is so great I consider it a very minor compromise.

Thu Oct 06, 2022 6:24 am

looks good. It should be noted the "blanket" trim is part of the kit from SHC.

Would you detail the steps to getting the steering wheel off? I'm a wheel virgin.

I'm guessing you pried off the horn bar (plastic center piece). Then undid the bolt. Did you need a puller to get it off? What type, I'm planning a sorte to harbor freight tools.

The shear bolts holding the old column, did these come out easily? Did you just use pliers?

I'll be cracking mine open in the next two weeks.

Thu Oct 06, 2022 8:57 am

You got it...pry the horn cover off then zip the 24mm nut off. The wheel should just slide right off, no puller necessary. As far as the sheer bolts, I just used some Vise grip pliers and they loosened right up. The EPS kit comes with new hardware to replace the sheer bolts too.

Thu Oct 06, 2022 9:58 am

Thanks!

Thu Oct 06, 2022 11:40 am

vega84 wrote: steve244 wrote: Earlier discussion indicates the unit, when powered off, will not impair steering.

How will this satisfy your road authorities?

That's a great question! The road authorities in my country are unpredictable. If they reject my application to use the EPAS system on public roads, I will inquire whether disconnecting the power may be a solution that can be approved. That would be far less work than having to physically disconnect the entire steering column to fit the original one (which are basically identical anyway).

I guess I'll have to prove for the road authorities that the unit, when powered off, will not impair steering. The documentation from SHC does not go into details about this, so I'm afraid it's a long shot.

That's where you're wrong, the collapsible column feature (in case of a crash) is not retained, that's why it will never be approved if they know and understand how the original system works.

Fri Oct 07, 2022 12:14 am

ALIKA T3 wrote: vega84 wrote: steve244 wrote: Earlier discussion indicates the unit, when powered off, will not impair steering.

How will this satisfy your road authorities?

That's a great question! The road authorities in my country are unpredictable. If they reject my application to use the EPAS system on public roads, I will inquire whether disconnecting the power may be a solution that can be approved. That would be far less work than having to physically disconnect the entire steering column to fit the original one (which are basically identical anyway).

I guess I'll have to prove for the road authorities that the unit, when powered off, will not impair steering. The documentation from SHC does not go into details about this, so I'm afraid it's a long shot.

That's where you're wrong, the collapsible column feature (in case of a crash) is not retained, that's why it will never be approved if they know and understand how the original system works.

Hmm. Are you sure about that? If that's the case, it's no good in case of an accident :O SHC gave a choice to modify the original steering column with a EPAS unit, or to buy an SHC supplied column where EPAS is already installed.

Fri Oct 07, 2022 11:16 am

vega84 wrote: ALIKA T3 wrote: vega84 wrote: steve244 wrote: Earlier discussion indicates the unit, when powered off, will not impair steering.

How will this satisfy your road authorities?

That's a great question! The road authorities in my country are unpredictable. If they reject my application to use the EPAS system on public roads, I will inquire whether disconnecting the power may be a solution that can be approved. That would be far less work than having to physically disconnect the entire steering column to fit the original one (which are basically identical anyway).

I guess I'll have to prove for the road authorities that the unit, when powered off, will not impair steering. The documentation from SHC does not go into details about this, so I'm afraid it's a long shot.

That's where you're wrong, the collapsible column feature (in case of a crash) is not retained, that's why it will never be approved if they know and understand how the original system works.

Hmm. Are you sure about that? If that's the case, it's no good in case of an accident :O SHC gave a choice to modify the original steering column with a EPAS unit, or to buy an SHC supplied column where EPAS is already installed.

2000% sure. I brought it up many times on various threads.
The collapsible/detachable steering column is a crash feature, it's mentioned and explained in one of their crash test videos you can find on Youtube.
To fit the electric PS unit, you have to delete that section of the column, whether you supply the column or they supply one from their used stash of parts, same result.

Fri Oct 07, 2022 5:41 pm

Vega84 - just drive like an Italian: Don't give a shit about what's behind you, and don't crash into what's in front.

There, the collapsible steering column is now irrelevant. ;)

Sat Oct 08, 2022 6:12 am

Just don't drive like a Brit, your odds of a head-on collision go up considerably.

Sun Oct 16, 2022 6:13 am

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0

Above link discusses stock steering column performance in frontal collision.

The performance of the SHC modified column in an accident is unknown.

Carry on.

Sun Oct 16, 2022 7:54 am

From the above pictures it looks like the steering shaft “horseshoe” slip section is replaced with a uJoint. To a point, the uJoint would allow the column to still stand up in a serious head on collision as shown in both current threads. In the photos of the owners crashed van, the horseshoe is still connected.

Our race cars require steering shafts that incorporate a telescoping collapsible section. There are aftermarket companies that sell premade sections that will collapse in a crash. I haven’t measured, but there might be the room to locate the horseshoe section closer to the floor or add an aftermarket section. That would not be a bolt in solution and likely require some quality welding.

Off road use only, won’t prevent a company from being named in a lawsuit and still having to defend. The above suggestions would only be an effort to add some functionality back to the stock column safety feature for off road use. I doubt it would satisfy MOT etc inspections.[/list]

Tue Nov 01, 2022 6:09 pm

Question for those of you who installed this kit.

The installation instructions are a bit vague regarding the horn ground wire. From factory, the ground wire comes up through the steering column and clips onto the body of the column, via a 1/4" quick disconnect. In the SHC instructions, it says to fold up the ground wire and shove it into the lower U-joint of the column, but then never mentions the wire again. I look all over the new column and didn't see anywhere to clip on the ground wire. Is it just supposed to be folded up and shoved into the hollow u-joint, and hope that the bare end of the connector makes contact with the inside of the joint, thus completing the ground?

Tue Nov 01, 2022 6:12 pm

revolution337 wrote: Question for those of you who installed this kit.

The installation instructions are a bit vague regarding the horn ground wire. From factory, the ground wire comes up through the steering column and clips onto the body of the column, via a 1/4" quick disconnect. In the SHC instructions, it says to fold up the ground wire and shove it into the lower U-joint of the column, but then never mentions the wire again. I look all over the new column and didn't see anywhere to clip on the ground wire. Is it just supposed to be folded up and shoved into the hollow u-joint, and hope that the bare end of the connector makes contact with the inside of the joint, thus completing the ground? The electrical connections to the kit include a ground. Better still, install a relay for the horn, and replace the meep-meep with a BARP-BARP version. ;)

Tue Nov 01, 2022 6:38 pm

fxr wrote: The electrical connections to the kit include a ground. Better still, install a relay for the horn, and replace the meep-meep with a BARP-BARP version. ;)

Can you elaborate a bit more on what you mean by "the kit includes a ground"? I didn't see any additional ground wiring in my kit that I received. It only came with a long power wire and fuse holder to go directly to the battery.

Where did you connect the original van ground wire on the new steering column?

Tue Nov 01, 2022 6:54 pm

It grounds via the bolts that hold it in place. That motor takes high currents at times - so the original ground wire wouldn't be much use anyway!

Tue Nov 01, 2022 7:15 pm

fxr wrote: It grounds via the bolts that hold it in place. That motor takes high currents at times - so the original ground wire wouldn't be much use anyway!

Wow yes. I did realize that the EPS motor was grounded through the unit itself where it bolts to the van. But for some reason my brain was not computing that the horn ground can also use that same path. I kept thinking to myself “this ground wire was on the old column, so it MUST go on the new column as well”.

One of those days…

Thanks for the quick response.

Wed Nov 02, 2022 11:28 am

revolution337 wrote: fxr wrote: It grounds via the bolts that hold it in place. That motor takes high currents at times - so the original ground wire wouldn't be much use anyway!

Wow yes. I did realize that the EPS motor was grounded through the unit itself where it bolts to the van. But for some reason my brain was not computing that the horn ground can also use that same path. I kept thinking to myself “this ground wire was on the old column, so it MUST go on the new column as well”.

One of those days…

Thanks for the quick response. Yeah, I was scratching my head to begin with when I installed mine. Then the obvious hit me fair and square. ;)

Mon Nov 07, 2022 1:46 pm

Got my EPS column installed over the weekend. There was a little more trimming work than I had anticipated. As mentioned earlier in this thread, I also had to trim a bit of the metal dashboard away from near where the column is located. Without doing this trimming, the column would hit and interfere with the dash itself, before fitting flat on the four mounting bolt locations.

This is how much of the heater box assembly I had to trim off as well, which is a pretty good chunk. This was painful, but necessary, to do. As you can see, the heater core itself is very close to the edge of the box. Keep this in mind when you are cutting the box, so as to not puncture the heater core. That would be a bad day.

I used some leftover foam from a previous project and stuffed it into the newly made hole in the lower corner of the heater box. Sealed up fine, no air leaks even with the blower motor on full speed. The hole is also hidden behind the EPS motor itself, and will be even more hidden once I get the center console shifter trim piece trimmed and reinstalled.

I will say that I am very impressed with the end result though. I did some quick testing with my Fluke meter, and found typical around town driving to be less than 2 amps. Slow/no speed or tight parking lot maneuvers saw spikes as high as 50 amps, albeit for a very short time (1-2 seconds), then it current drops back down dramatically.