TheSamba.com :: View topic - Rustoleum farm implement vs self etching vs epoxy primer?

Fri May 01, 2020 9:44 pm

Hello, i was wondering which of these will be best for my floor pans and other chassis parts. I plan on one of these primers, with rustoleum enamel gloss black top coat. I plan on,

Wire wheeling to bare metal, media blast small parts, degrees, seam sealer, prime, paint.

Also, should I bother with using something ospho? Will i need it if I take it all down to bare metal? I am wanting to use the quart style so that I can use a hvlp.

One more thing. So, how many quarts will i need of each? 1 or 2?

Thanks

Sat May 02, 2020 6:21 pm

Look into Master Series Silver primer. I did not even know about it until recently. I just painted the majority of my car with it today.
Not saying run out and buy it, but look into it. And use the AG-111 gloss black.

Sat May 02, 2020 7:30 pm

Is the ag100 a top coat. I thought you can put any type of enamel on top of masterseries. Thanks

Sat May 02, 2020 8:13 pm

Do you have a spray gun?

I would seriously look into some epoxy primer. SPI is really good and also very affordable. Look it up, everyone loves it who uses it. It comes in black, grey, red oxide and white.

No point messing around with anything else for your floorpan. Epoxy is what you want for lasting protection. No need for ospho with the epoxy, there are also incompatible. You can NOT use epoxy primer on top ospho, unless you nuetralize the ospho first. Thats a whole nother topic... I will share that IMO nuetralizing the oshpo is more trouble than its worth.

Sat May 02, 2020 9:51 pm

I just try to remove any rust as best as possible, treat any remaining rust with ospho, remove any non-converted ospho with lacquer thinner, cover with cheap epoxy (kirker dtm), paint with rustoleum within epoxy recoat window. Probably overkill for a fair weather garage kept hobby car. But even on top of that I either spray with oil or cavity wax.
Honestly, if it’s a fair weather garage kept hobby car, rustoleum does just fine on its own.

Sun May 03, 2020 12:07 pm

Rustomleum is decent stuff for what it is. But if you have a spray gun there are much better products out there for not much more.

If I didnt have a spray gun or compressor I would roll on some SPI epoxy. Then roll on some TCP global restoration shop single stage urethane in a black color. They sell another line called hot rod flatz, i use the "chassis satin black" they sell for all my chassis, engine tin, etc. a quart kit of that epoxy runs about 120 bucks. Quart kit of paint is 50 with free shipping on ebay.

Rustoleum is good for what it is but its still solvent based paint which is no where near as durable or protective as catalized paints. Will it work for a hobby car, yes. I would not do it personally or reccomend it however.

Sun May 03, 2020 1:07 pm

Epoxy is pretty much the best. It's resistant to everything except sunlight. including brake fluid! In areas where the sun does not shine you don't even really need to top coat it.
It does require a rough surface to have best adhesion.
The only way I ever see epoxy "fail" is if it was applied to a surface that was not clean, or was too smooth.

Sun May 03, 2020 9:00 pm

Huh, i stopped getting topic notifications again. That’s 3 different threads. Eh, whatever. I do have a hvlp, a decent size compressor, and the rest of the equipment. After reading, I’m going to go with the masterseries ag111 gloss black kit. I’m talking with chuck and I’m fairly positive that he can answer my questions.

Also, I’m going to use rustoleum self etch, with gloss black enamel for my engine tins and front beam and a few other small parts. If any one is interested, I can report back on the results. I also plan a how to for anyone wanting to do the same.

Thanks

Sun May 03, 2020 11:54 pm

I use VHT engine paint instead of rustoleum, for must small jobs.

I think rustoleum reformulated a half dozen years ago, it's just not like used to be, and it never was super.

Mon May 04, 2020 8:38 am

If you have all that equipment rustoleum is a waste of time and money. Epoxy primer and single stage ureathane is miles ahead of it as far as protection, durabilty, even the look of the final finish.

I did the pans on my bug with POR-15 before I knew better. I regret it now. Now wish I had used epoxy primer and catalized paint. Those products do not seal the rust as they claim. Trust me. I can post pictures of floor in my car after 5 years with por15. You can see rust spots coming back through in problem areas.

I have no personal experience with masterseries. The AG111 looks good. The silver primer seems a little gimicky. It it just paint with silver in it? Any enamel is going to seal rust in... I wouldnt bother with it for something important like my pan. They make a lot of bold claims about the product but dont explain anything. "Only type of primer that is air tight, beats everything else in salt spray test." Thats sounds lile bullshit marketing, so I'd like if they would actually explain what makes there formula so different.

Do some more resaerch you will realize that epoxy is more proper and more widely used. Its the industry standard in auto body now. You'll end with a far better looking and longer lasting result. There is no problem with brushing/rolling the paint on the floor pans. For the engine tin I would shoot it for sure, otherwise it will look like shit. Also engine tin looks best as original: semi-gloss or satin, so keep that in mind.

Just realized that the master series paint is in fact a single stage catalized paint so you should be good with that. I would seriously consider epoxy primer though.

Skip the rustoleum on your engine tin! You dont need etch primer that stuff is for aluminum usually. Use a urethane with hardener such as the AG111 instead. Again epoxy would be the hands down best choice as far as primer... there is not even an argument there. Anyone else who claims differently either doesn't know or wants to sell you another product.

Good luck!

My family has been in the auto body business for 40+ years

Tue May 05, 2020 9:23 pm

Hmmmmm... I still didn’t get a topic notification. Weird. Also, thank you guys for the help, I appreciate it.

I’m now looking at the dtm epoxy primer https://www.ebay.com/itm/Kirker-Enduro-Prime-Epoxy...001182345?

And was wondering if you guys could continue steering me in the right direction. So, if I buy the kiriker Cheepo primer, can I roll it on out of the can? will 1 quart be enough?

Also, what type of top coat should I use? Or, which is most durable? I’m on a budget so 50ish bucks for a quart of top coat is my max. Could I use the ag111? I’m am wanting a shiny finish but that is least important compared to durability and longevity.

Edit- I found this, https://www.tptools.com/Bill-Hirsch-Semi-Gloss-Sup...?b=d*12747

It claims to have the ability to go over primer, but doesn’t say which kind. I guess epoxy? It looks nice, any thoughts? https://www.tptools.com/Bill-Hirsch-Semi-Gloss-Sup...?b=d*12747

Thank you

Wed May 06, 2020 6:38 am

MasterSeries AG111 satin or gloss black moisture cured urethane, one quart $44 including the hardener. Nothing you spill on it will lift it , not even brake fluid. This is a good topcoat for the MasterSeries silver primer. This combo has been tested for 14,000 salt spray testing with no ill effects.

Wed May 06, 2020 8:52 am

I think you'll be happy with the AG111 in satin or gloss black for your floor pans. It seems like a good product for the job.

The master series silver primer could have its uses as well I'm just not totally sold on it yet and prefer to use epoxy. To each his own

I have no personal experience with the Kirker DTM epoxy but it might be fine.

I would look into this stuff. You can buy 2 quarts worth for about 80 bucks total free shipping. Its a two part system that you mix @ 1:1 ratio so you would get 1 quart of hardener and 1 quart of epoxy.
https://www.southernpolyurethanes.com/pricing

Many people use it and have great things to say about the product and company

Wed May 06, 2020 8:58 am

I think you'll be happy with the AG111 in satin or gloss black for your floor pans. It seems like a very good product for the job, I would stick to that.

The master series silver primer could have its uses as well I'm just not totally sold on it yet and prefer to use epoxy. To each his own

I have no personal experience with the Kirker DTM epoxy but it might be fine.

I would look into this stuff. You can buy 2 quarts worth for about 80 bucks total free shipping. Its a two part system that you mix @ 1:1 ratio so you would get 1 quart of hardener and 1 quart of epoxy.
https://www.southernpolyurethanes.com/pricing

Many people use it and have great things to say about the product and company

And the truth is 1 quart for the floor pans, chassis parts, tins is pushing it. You might need close to 2 quarts anyway so keep that in mind.

Yes you can roll or brush the epoxy right on just make sure you get a nice roller or brush that is not going to leave lint. Many rollers leave lint even when they say they dont on the package. If I remember correctly you want a nicer foam one.

Wed May 06, 2020 8:10 pm

Ok, thank you all. After doing even more research I’m going back to buying the masterseries primer and top coat kit. Mainly because I haven’t heard anything bad against masterseries primer and also, for like 94 bucks shipped I get a quart of primer, thinner, hardener, and top coat. I’m gonna give it a try.