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Thu May 14, 2020 10:09 am

My van, normally my daily driver, has been sitting a lot more idle lately due to COVID. I've also temporarily got it out of my gravel driveway and on a side street near some trees as we got a huge delivery of mulch.

Yesterday, the exact third anniversary of my acquisition of the van, we headed for some errands for the first time in a week and less than a mile later were kindly let know by another driver at a light that we were leaking something. I pulled over and noticed quite a bit of gas from the driver rear wheel well & trailing arm area. Was pretty quickly able to figure out that the hard return line was leaking.

For folks who aren't familiar (obvious I'm sure to a lot of car folk, but something I've learned over time as I've acquired skills and experience fixing/modifying the fuel pump & filter setup on this '85, as well as swapping and resealing the gas tank), gas flows from from the tank on the passenger side through the pump/filter combo to the bleeder tee, out to the injectors, back to the fuel regulator, and then returns to the tank on the driver side. Apparently this is at about 10x the demands of the engine according to GoWesty so that you always have enough fuel on demand.

I found a place to pull over, grab a light, and squeeze under the van (it's lifted, so this was quite a bit easier) and check things out. I could see a complete break in the hard line in front of the engine firewall, so I figured my best bet was to use a bit of spare SAE hose I had on hand to reconnect the two ends with hose clamps and get to a better and more convenient spot to redo the whole thing.

Start the engine, run out and check if the leak is gone, quickly shut off. It didn't solve the problem. After a few more attempts, I realized there were quite a few holes up and down the hard line, not just the original break. And one particularly egregious gnaw spot!

I was able to get a ride out to a great local parts place (Halsey, for the Portland locals), get a few meters of the good German rubber 7mm hose, and then swap it all out roadside. You only lose a tiny splash of gas at the regulator, and the tank end not too much if you're quick (of course my tank was nearly full, minus the losses). Tighten up the clamps and all is well!

I have heard that rodents are picking on car wiring more frequently these days due to more idle vehicles, and it doesn't seem like too much of a stretch to me that this could include fuel hard lines, too (and maybe even rubber lines?)

A couple questions for those who know more than I:

- I ran the rubber line through the rear frame hole near the coolant pipes just as the hard line had (the grommet was long gone). It doesn't look like it will rub, but do you think I should find a tight-fit grommet for there?
- Any harm in going all rubber for the return, vs. getting a hard line kit?
- Anyone else seen this before?
- Anyone else seeing Corona rodent activity?

Happy Vaniversary, Mr. Fusion!

Thu May 14, 2020 10:49 am

No opinion on using rubber over nylon for the long run of line, what you have works just as well and is probably also attractive to hardworking jobless rodents.

You should provide chafe protection of the hoses where it goes thru the bulkhead, or hang it underneath. I don't really trust a rubber grommet long-term, the outer groove that keeps it in place in the sheet metal gets sliced thru by vibration but that's invisible to a casual inspection, so eventually the metal ends up slicing the hose as well. I find a split stub of hose slid around the hose into the opening, then ziptied snugly around the hose, provides better chafe protection.

Apart from replacing all soft goods with metal, the preventive strategy to take against rodents is to make their favorite places unattractive. The strategy might vary with different species and climates. Inside an enclosed space things like peppermint oil, mothballs, etc. offend their nostrils, so they don't want to nest there, but those things won't work outside the box under the hood and chassis of cars. Most rodents are nocturnal and prefer a dark place to nest in during daylight, so lighting during the day will discourage them from hanging around. What we find here is pack rats won't nest in the engine bay of normal cars by propping the hood up six inches or so, that lets in enough daylight to deter them. That doesn't work on a Vanagon though, because then you've propped open a door for them to come inside.

I was thinking someone could make a nice little business of a rodent repellent kit with a tiny PV panel and several LEDs that could be placed in the dark places rodents like to nest and chew. Direct power the LEDs off the PV and no battery or controller would be needed, the LEDs would light during the day and go out at sundown, right when the little buggers leave their lairs to go hunt up some grub.

Thu May 14, 2020 10:52 am

You need some feral cats. Your lucky it was the fuel line and not the wiring harness.

Thu May 14, 2020 10:55 am

MarkWard wrote: You need some feral cats. Your lucky it was the fuel line and not the wiring harness.

no kidding! and that you were able to spot it and get it patched before any kind of major calamity

Thu May 14, 2020 11:12 am

I used to deal with chewed wiring all the time when I worked for Porsche, one of the things I was told in tech school (not sure if true or not just wanted to share) is that in recent years companies are using some form of soy in the wiring sheathing, whether it be oil or powder I don't know exactly. 1 thing I do know for sure, is that Honda sells a rodent tape, it's a light gray tape with a white "NO symbol" (the circle with the line thru it) and it has a mouse head in the circle,it smells terrible I was told to use gloves when handling it. I guess it has some form of poison in it.... I don't know the cost of said tape, nor do I know exactly how to ask for it, but I do know i was given 2 rolls from a customer who was in for his 3rd wiring repair. Might be worth checking out. hope this helps not only you but others as well.

Thu May 14, 2020 11:22 am

colbysmith28 wrote: .... 1 thing I do know for sure, is that Honda sells a rodent tape, it's a light gray tape with a white "NO symbol" (the circle with the line thru it) and it has a mouse head in the circle,it smells terrible I was told to use gloves when handling it. .....

Sorry for somewhat OT stuff but if I'm not mistaken, rodents leave trails of their own urine and follow that smell. What about some kind of undercoating spray that would contain a smell strong enough to "confuse" the rodents sense of smell but not so bad that car owners would puke within 10' of their ride? ;)

Those buggers (rodents) chew on lots of things. Like defrost or heating tubes up at the dash. BTDT.

I have to wonder if one reason VW used that hard hose at fuel tank, en route to/from engine bay, was as a cost savings. i.e. rubber fuel hose from regulator to fuel tank should be ok?

Neil.

Thu May 14, 2020 11:25 am

Your work looks fine to me. Agreed on Tencent's firewall hose protection strategy.

Rats...hate 'em. I've lucked out with stuff like this, but would find droppings on my engine block each winter in my garage (also in Portland). Recently moved and the new garage was a rat hotel too, but I've called in the big guns and slow kill-off from poison feed boxes is well underway. Still scared to park the van in the garage though.

Interesting tidbit about modern vehicles and soy-based lines/wiring. I'll have to tell my neighbor whose Prius has been victim of the (former) residents of my rat hotel.

Thu May 14, 2020 11:40 am

colbysmith28 wrote: Honda sells a rodent tape, it's a light gray tape with a white "NO symbol" (the circle with the line thru it) and it has a mouse head in the circle,

Honda PN 4019-2317 PVC tape impregnated with capsicum. about $45 for 65 feet. good idea.

slipping a stainless steel braid tube over the fuel line might be necessary in some areas. about $3/ft for 3/8" diameter. cheaper than a fire.

Thu May 14, 2020 12:19 pm

They got me too! I think they're squirrels in my area though. Plenty of feral cats. They chewed on my spark plug wires!

Thu May 14, 2020 1:28 pm

I've always been lucky with that so far other than slightly chewed ABS Modulator wiring on my old '92 Montero. That one caught me by surprise as the now-bare wiring laid against metal in the engine compartment and engaged the ABS PUMP relay to a fully On Position with the grounding of the relay. Easy fix and the Rodents in question never bothered me again.

I have seen my share of chewed wiring. The worst was fixed by a Co-worker of mine where the Mice went UNDER the carpeting of a Land Rover and attacked the ground wires that run under the carpet on these vehicles.
They damaged enough of the Body Harness as well that the Insurance Co elected to agree to a new Body Harness.

The funniest one was an early 90's BMW E-30 318i that belonged to the Girlfriend of the General Manager at the dealer. Mice made a home on top of the Headliner with Bird seed stored galore. Every time you went over a bump, tiny birdseed would dribble out of holes or gaps and rain down on you while driving until we cleaned it all out....... :roll: :roll:

Thu May 14, 2020 3:27 pm

DanHoug wrote: ... PVC tape impregnated with capsicum...
Sounds delicious! :D

:wink:

- Dave

Thu May 14, 2020 4:08 pm

dhaavers wrote: DanHoug wrote: ... PVC tape impregnated with capsicum...
Sounds delicious! :D

:wink:

- Dave

some bok choy, ginger, 5 spice, and chicken thighs and ayup. cayenne 'noodle' with stir fry.

Thu May 14, 2020 9:44 pm

DanHoug wrote: ... PVC tape impregnated with capsicum.

Round these parts, we call that a Cajun Wrap.

Fri May 15, 2020 11:12 am

Some plant nurseries sell pepper spray for certain pesky insects, turns out bugs usually order from the "Comida Yanqui" menu at Mexican places. Rodents don't care for it either. If you wanted to avoid the labor of wrapping things in that sheathing, periodic dosing with it might do the trick.

Sat Apr 10, 2021 12:30 pm

With the exception of a few trips, my van has been sitting idle outside for most of the last year as I use it for a wfh office.

I've been using these peppermint products liberally and have had no rodents (knock on wood). I have no idea if the products worked or if I've just been lucky.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MG87IAB/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_image?ie=UTF8&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07BHRRZVL/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_image?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Sat Apr 10, 2021 4:56 pm

X2 on the cat. They come with their own set of issues, but much more pleasant to deal with than rats.

A good barn cat is worth her weight in gold.

Sat Apr 10, 2021 5:57 pm

Run CuNi and short Gates to join the fitting. Know where all the joints are so you know the gnaw spots