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Fri May 22, 2020 12:08 pm

hi there,

I have a 1995 Eurovan, and after I turn the ignition off, the battery meter for the automotive (not the coach) battery shows up on the panel above the driver. For a long time, it would show as a full set of bars, but lately, it only shows the smallest and largest bar. Does anyone know what this means?

The battery and alternator are charging ... car starts ...

Thank you!

Fionna

Mon Jun 01, 2020 9:54 am

I think you aren’t getting any replies because your not giving enough information and no one knows what the meter is or what your van is (if it’s a factory conversion).
The eurovan doesn’t have a battery meter as standard.
Things like the winnebago camper have meter for the rear leisure battery but not the starter.
I have a 95 Winnebago conversion and have nothing like you describe

Wed Jun 03, 2020 5:18 am

The meter referred to is the one mounted above the rear view mirror in a Canadian version Eurovan CV converted to a full camper by Westfalia. It monitors the auxiliary battery in the lower left rear cabinetry that feeds power to the camper section only, it does not monitor the engine starter (automotive) battery. The use and operation of this monitor and control panel is explained in the owner's manual (see photos below from my owners book for my 1992 Eurovan CV. Your display may be different for a 1995, but operation is similar). The display you are seeing (smallest and largest bars only) indicates that the state of charge for the aux battery is too low. You should also see above those bars a display of either the external temperature or the aux battery voltage. You can toggle between the battery and temperature display (see your owners manual). What is the voltage shown when you have the bar display with only the short and long bars showing? How the electrics work on a Westfalia CV: The engine alternator will charge both the starter battery and the aux battery when the engine is running. If the aux battery is low in charge, it can take a long day of driving to charge a healthy aux battery. If the aux battery is old or has otherwise deteriorated, it may never regain a full or even partial charge. When the van is stopped and plugged into 110 volt power, the aux battery is being charged by a battery charger. Same issues apply if the aux battery is in a poor state. You need to have these systems checked out by a Eurovan mechanic with experience of the Canadian Westfalia camper version CV. Those with knowledge of the US versions by Winnipeg do not know how to fix a CV. (Well, there may be someone with knowledge of both, but you need someone with specific experience of the CV.) How old is your aux battery? Did it sit all winter without being charged monthly? It is likely you need a new aux battery if it is old or has not been well maintained.

Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:53 am

That's pretty cool! What years did Canada get the full Westfalia? I wonder what the reasoning was to exclude the US market.

Wed Jun 03, 2020 11:24 am

Broseph Stalin wrote: That's pretty cool! What years did Canada get the full Westfalia? I wonder what the reasoning was to exclude the US market.

I believe 1992 to 1995, Canadians could buy the Westfalia full camper as the Eurovan CV. Later - sorry, I don't know which model years - Canadians also could get Eurovan transporters that were empty cargo vans with a partition between the cab and cargo area that were not offered in the US.

The 1992-1995 Eurovans were all short wheel base models based on the European T4 models. (I have a brochure delivered with my CV that outlines some spec differences. The brochure was included because my van was bought in Canada for delivery in Europe, then shipped to Canada by VW after the original purchasers' Eroupean holiday.) The Weekender model sold in the USA was more in line with the other Eurovan offerings in the US in that they were aimed at families with many children and had the extra seats needed to transport larger broods. The weekender met that need with a pop top and limited other camping abilities. Canadians, I suspect, were more interested in a full camper for smaller families and more time in an inclosed (warm) space. But I'm just guessing here.

After VW and Westfalia ended their business relationship. VW sold special bare LWB T4 vans, made to Winnibego's specs, for Winnibego to convert to full campers for the US market. In Europe, the California models of campers were converted by Westfalia and others and are still available, but sadly, not in North America.

There are cases of other manufacturers having different models or model names, or different specs and variations in Canada and the US. It's not as common now as previously, but still happens. VW did this with diesel offerings and 4motion availability. Also, VW gave different names to some models in Canada and the US, but naming is more uniform now.

I'm sure VW, has lots of market analysis to help decide what vehicles to offer in various markets and along with that considers volume of sales, competition, and the cost of meeting any market's legal requirements regarding safety, testing, etc. Like I said, I'm doing a lot of guessing about VW's motives.

Wed Jun 03, 2020 4:24 pm

Probably was related to the "Chicken Tax" in the US which places a 25% tariff on imported vehicles in some categories. A bare bones Eurovan cargo van was no 25%, a luxury Westfalia probably the 25%.

Fri Jun 05, 2020 4:29 am

I think chicken tax hit the cargos/trucks . That's the reason Subaru put 2 little seats in their Baja back .

Mon Jun 08, 2020 7:30 am

Thanks so much, SteveZ! You're right, this is a Westfalia CV in Canada. It was imported from Japan. Thanks for the explanation - that helps a lot. The current voltage after the van has been sitting for two days, is reading 12.4 V which seems healthy. After driving for about hour and a half, it goes up to about 13.5 V. I have been camping with it last week, with the fridge turned on, and the lowest it went was no lower than 12 V.

So it seems okay despite showing just the smallest and largest bar? I wonder if the meter is broken.

Mon Jun 08, 2020 2:23 pm

No, your battery is not okay. Sorry. 12.2 volts is a battery discharged to 50% of its capacity. 50% SOC, where SOC = state of charge, is as low as manufacturers recommend a battery be discharged. Fully discharged is 11.4 volts. Batteries do not respond well to being discharged below 50% of their capacity. They will lose their ability to take a charge or hold that charge, loose the ability to fully charge, so you don’t get a lot of power back into them and they will deteriorate rapidly until they need to be replaced.

About the 12.2 volt 50% SOC point, think of it this way. If your loads need 12 volts, running them from a battery below 12 volts won’t work. Yes, a lamp will still glow, but dimmer, but electronics or a fridge compressor that need that certain voltage will not work or could be damaged running on low voltage. So, low voltage below 12.2 is potentially bad for the loads and for the battery.

Your aux battery is one of these types: FLA - a standard flooded lead-acid battery, or a FLADC - a FLA deep cycle battery, or one of the AGM equivalents: AGM or AGMDC. Ideally, your aux battery should be a Deep Cycle battery. The AGM (Absorbed Glass Mat) batteries will have a bit more capacity in AH (ampere hours) than the FLADC of the same size, they are spill proof, do not require water to be added, and do not emit gasses when being charged.

To charge the battery, if they have been discharged, but not below 50%, you need to supply them with a "bulk" charge until the batteries are about 75% fully charged - 25% to go. Then the "absorption" stage takes over and the batteries receive 14.1 to 14.8 volts until they are charged. Next, they receive a "float" stage at 13.0 to 13.8 volts to maintain them at full charge.

The engine alternator will charge the aux battery in your van when you drive, but it can take a very long drive to fully charge a battery. Long road trips may work well, or shorter drives when the battery has only been discharged a bit, say down from the 12.9 volts of a fully charged battery to 12.8 volts. But if the battery has been discharged to 12.3 volts, a short drive is not going to charge it fully. When you are driving the alternator is charging the aux battery if it is not already fully charged. The reading of voltage on the meter is the voltage at the battery, but when it is being charged the reading is the charge voltage, not the battery SOC. You won’t see that until the engine is off and the battery has rested a bit.

The 110 volt charger comes into play when the van is connected to shore power. An overnight charge may be enough to bring the battery up to full, depending on the charger and the old running through the night, such as the fridge. I have not knowledge of the specifications and operation of the charger VW supplied with the CV back in the early 1990s. When I bought my van, the original charger was already replaced with a modern one that supplied the proper 3 stages of charging that the battery needed.

The Eurovan CV has space for 2 Group 27 size batteries. The FLA and FLADC of that size will have a capacity on average of 80 AH each and the AGM or AGMDC will be about 90. You should only use deep cycle batteries for you aux batteries. I replaced my old worn out FLADC 80AH battery with 2 AGMDC batteries that each had a capacity of 92AH. My maximum capacity with these wired in parallel is 184AH. But because I will not discharge them below 50%, my usable capacity is 92AH.

So, important numbers: 12.9 volts is fully charged. 12.2 volts is 50% SOC. 11.4 volts is fully discharged. Don’t use battery below 50% SOC/12.2 volts. Charging takes time, depending on SOC and output of charger (alternator or shore power).

I can’t remember the varying circumstances under which the overhead meter shows a continuum of bars or just the first and last, but I do know it is not a fault when it does that. Your meter isn’t broken. I don’t use the bars as an indicator of battery state because there is no absolute values attached to them; I use the voltage. Note that the voltage will not be an accurate indication of SOC until the charging has stopped (engine off, not plugged into 100volts) and the battery has rested a bit, so give it a few minutes. I installed a battery monitor (Victron BMV-712) to aid me here, but that is an expensive option.

Sat Jun 13, 2020 10:20 am

Thanks again, SteveZ! That makes a lot of sense. It hasn't been plugged in for a while (all winter and spring) and has been driven little. I will go ahead and charge it with shore power and see what happens. Hopefully, that charges it up and stays. If not, it looks like I might need a battery replacement sooner rather than later (even though the batter is supposed to be new as of last year).