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Thu May 28, 2020 7:42 pm

So , used the search on here and I’m more confused than when I started. What would be a good exhaust for my buggy project? My engine is a 1600 single port with a 30 pict-1 carb. I plan on removing the heater boxes. Obviously I don’t need a “performance” system but I don’t want to lose power either. I was looking at the Tri-Mill bazooka system but I’m not sure. Thanks as always. Todd

Thu May 28, 2020 8:13 pm

Find a 1 3/8" or 1 1/2" merged system like a sidewinder or upswept tri-mill style header. CIP1.COM has a decent selection of buggy exhausts.

Thu May 28, 2020 9:21 pm

A Dansk reproduction of the 1973 VW Thing exhaust? Note the tube to the muffler on the #2 side of the heat riser so it should actually work. Also notice that I had to narrow the heat riser tubes a little to fit. I had that system ceramic coated black.

It really depends on what look you are after and the sound you want. With a single carb I also recommend you get the heat riser working. Exhaust systems with both connections right at the head don't really work. One side needs to be connected at the head and the other at the muffler.

Fri May 29, 2020 5:57 am

https://aapistons.com/collections/type-1-exhaust-s...-raw-steel

bnc

Fri May 29, 2020 5:57 am

If you have (body) clearance at rear of motor I recommend the TR-MIL Bobcat with quiet pack muffler...

Dale

Fri May 29, 2020 10:28 am

Run whatever you like ... whatever looks good to you. I doubt very seriously your single port engine will notice much difference between a typical buggy dual and a merged collector.

The size of your rear tires and transmission gearing will have a much bigger influence on how it drives.

Fri May 29, 2020 10:41 am

There is a huge and very noticeable difference between a header and the dual cannon type exhaust. There was a full 1/2 second difference between the 2 on my 1756cc when I ran them both at the drag strip.

Fri May 29, 2020 10:51 am

He is running a stock single port. Not racing. No comparison. :roll:

Fri May 29, 2020 12:53 pm

Q-Dog wrote: He is running a stock single port. Not racing. No comparison. :roll: No working heat riser with dune buggy duals. That might be noticeable.

Fri May 29, 2020 1:01 pm

I hooked up the heat risers on my duals. The intake runs colder than ambient air and sometimes sweats, but it doesn't freeze like it used to. :wink: Of course I rarely drive it on days cooler than 50°F and almost never when under 40°.

Fri May 29, 2020 4:15 pm

Q-Dog wrote: He is running a stock single port. Not racing. No comparison.

The time slip DOES NOT lie.

Fri May 29, 2020 4:28 pm

vwracerdave wrote: Q-Dog wrote: He is running a stock single port. Not racing. No comparison.

The time slip DOES NOT lie.
But it is irrelevent to this discussion. 1/2 second in a quarter mile? That's gonna make such a huge difference when cruising down to the corner ice cream shop or driving around in town. :roll:

Fri May 29, 2020 5:18 pm

vwracerdave wrote: Q-Dog wrote: He is running a stock single port. Not racing. No comparison.

The time slip DOES NOT lie.
Would it be 1/2 second if the engine was breathing out of a single 30 PICT carb? Would dune buggy duals be slower than the stock muffler and pea shooters?

Dune buggy split duals is a look and a sound (damn loud.) Loved it 30 years ago, still like the look but don't want the noise. This is why I went with with the 1973 Thing exhaust. I'd be running dual carbs too, like my first buggy, but fear the Thing exhaust and single port heads will not be enough to fix the crappy idle and low end torque.

"What exhaust" is an interesting question, but one we can't answer for someone else. Every person needs to weigh their priorities, it's about YOUR style. My Berry Mini-T is an ugly bugling in the opinion of plenty here -- that's fine. We are each doing it our own way and that is why we are here in the buggy forum!

Fri May 29, 2020 7:57 pm

If you like the look of duals then get them. If you like the sound of duals then get them. Just be aware your throwing away 8-10 horsepower even on a stock SP 1600 over using a cheap header. There have been many dyno tests to show this. A stock muffler is better than dual exhaust. When you have a stock 53 HP engine adding 8 more horsepower will be very noticeable.

Sat May 30, 2020 4:40 am

Q-Dog wrote: vwracerdave wrote: Q-Dog wrote: He is running a stock single port. Not racing. No comparison.

The time slip DOES NOT lie.
But it is irrelevent to this discussion. 1/2 second in a quarter mile? That's gonna make such a huge difference when cruising down to the corner ice cream shop or driving around in town. :roll:
Once again, like so many times in the past 50 years it is assumed that what happens at the drag strip is the "gospel" for everybody else. There are so many more variables on the street.

I have had dual cannons on two different Buggies now. One was a 1600DP with Kadrons and a 009. Not good! Not very drivable, had to change out the exhaust not only to make it drivable around town but the noise was intolerable on the highway.

The second one is in a Sand Rail, 1600 SP stock carb and distributor, used off road only and rarely sees highway speeds. This runs OK without most of the issues the other engine had and not that bad for noise.

Not all dual cannons are equal either. The ones with longer primaries work much better than the short cheaper ones.

The 8 hp gain claim by the way would only apply if you are running a cam, big valve heads and Webers at 6,500 rpm. For a stock engine at stock rpms you would be lucky to see 3 hp and would have to have a pretty sensitive butt dyno to feel it on the street. Been there, done that!

Sat May 30, 2020 7:30 am

oprn wrote:

The 8 hp gain claim by the way would only apply if you are running a cam, big valve heads and Webers at 6,500 rpm. For a stock engine at stock rpms you would be lucky to see 3 hp and would have to have a pretty sensitive butt dyno to feel it on the street. Been there, done that!

The 8 HP is not a "claim". It is a measurable result by many engine builders that have done dyno testing on a stock 1600. When you run an engine on a dyno you get an accurate measurable result that can not be disputed. When you make a timed 1/8 or 1/4 mile drag race pass you get an accurate measurable time slip. Horsepower is horsepower no matter how the vehicle is used.

It has also been proven that a header exhaust system can add a few more MPG for street driving.

My 1756cc engine was not a racing engine, it was built for a street cruiser. It had stock valve heads, W-110 cam, 32/36 Progressive and 7.5 CR

Sat May 30, 2020 11:34 am

Has any VW magazine or other place done a comprehensive comparison of different exhaust systems on an otherwise stock 1600 Bug engine? By running an engine on a dyno while switching between 10 or so of the available systems the torque and power curves from 1500-4500 rpm would allow the various options to speak for themselves. Everyone could see which choices damage the low end, which ones choke off the upper end and which systems actually improve power over the stock muffler. "What exhaust" questions seem pretty common and this would be a great starting place to direct many of them.

[Edited to add] I was thinking about this in terms of all the VW magazines I was reading while sitting in class in High School (years ago.) In a modern internet world sound tracks could also be included, all from the same microphone.

Sun May 31, 2020 1:47 pm

oprn wrote: Q-Dog wrote: vwracerdave wrote: Q-Dog wrote: He is running a stock single port. Not racing. No comparison.

The time slip DOES NOT lie.
But it is irrelevent to this discussion. 1/2 second in a quarter mile? That's gonna make such a huge difference when cruising down to the corner ice cream shop or driving around in town. :roll:
Once again, like so many times in the past 50 years it is assumed that what happens at the drag strip is the "gospel" for everybody else. There are so many more variables on the street.

I have had dual cannons on two different Buggies now. One was a 1600DP with Kadrons and a 009. Not good! Not very drivable, had to change out the exhaust not only to make it drivable around town but the noise was intolerable on the highway.

The second one is in a Sand Rail, 1600 SP stock carb and distributor, used off road only and rarely sees highway speeds. This runs OK without most of the issues the other engine had and not that bad for noise.

Not all dual cannons are equal either. The ones with longer primaries work much better than the short cheaper ones.

The 8 hp gain claim by the way would only apply if you are running a cam, big valve heads and Webers at 6,500 rpm. For a stock engine at stock rpms you would be lucky to see 3 hp and would have to have a pretty sensitive butt dyno to feel it on the street. Been there, done that!

... you had me laughing at the comment about long primaries working much better than short one. BS. You're still fighting the firing order trying to pass two sequential exhaust pulses down one pipe...

And dual cannons still sound like crap.

bnc

Sun May 31, 2020 1:49 pm

EVfun wrote: Has any VW magazine or other place done a comprehensive comparison of different exhaust systems on an otherwise stock 1600 Bug engine? By running an engine on a dyno while switching between 10 or so of the available systems the torque and power curves from 1500-4500 rpm would allow the various options to speak for themselves. Everyone could see which choices damage the low end, which ones choke off the upper end and which systems actually improve power over the stock muffler. "What exhaust" questions seem pretty common and this would be a great starting place to direct many of them.

[Edited to add] I was thinking about this in terms of all the VW magazines I was reading while sitting in class in High School (years ago.) In a modern internet world sound tracks could also be included, all from the same microphone.

Hot VWs and VW Trends have performed tests in the past, as have Berg, Jake Gaby, and others. Merged headers win, as the duals cannot resolve/overcome the firing order exhaust pulse issue.

bnc

Mon Jun 01, 2020 10:38 am

didget69 wrote: https://aapistons.com/collections/type-1-exhaust-s...-raw-steel

bnc

That looks like it may be what I’m looking for. It appears to bolt up to my heat risers also.
Will hi temp paint last if I use it or should I save up for the ceramic coated version?
Thanks, Todd