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Mon Jun 01, 2020 6:46 am

Zed999 wrote: When you do tighten it, do not simply allow the arm/box to run to the end of it's travel and heave against that or you could/will damage the box. Get a piece of pipe to slide over the arm and hold it tight or arrange such that the pipe jams against the floor or other convenient stop.

Sorry, not sure what you mean here. I was going to tighten the nut until I can put the pin through the castled part of the nut. Do you happen to know what the size of that nut is?

Mon Jun 01, 2020 8:24 am

don't tighten it until you align the marks. Then you can set the drag link to center the steering. Below are blow ups of a couple late steering boxes from the gallery that show the mark on the steering box. There is a similar mark on the arm.

Mon Jun 01, 2020 9:19 am

SGKent wrote: don't tighten it until you align the marks. Then you can set the drag link to center the steering. Below are blow ups of a couple late steering boxes from the gallery that show the mark on the steering box. There is a similar mark on the arm.

thanks much, i will look again

Mon Jun 01, 2020 10:50 am

Here is the end of the shaft and the arm. I am not seeing the marks on either. There is a fairly straight scratch (like a radius) at about 8:30, but I think it is just a scratch and not a mark because there is a similar scratch going kind of randomly from about 1 to 5 o'clock.

Here you can see how the arm traveled off of the splines.

I am guessing the nut is 32mm, I am going to buy a 32mm socket and hopefully that is right. I don't have a puller and I read in my manual that only a puller should be used to pull it and never a hammer. So, until I get a puller and a pusher (not sure of the exact too here), it feels like my only option is to tighten it on the spline location where it currently is. I found the center of the travel by counting the turns lock to lock and going half way from the one extreme. At this position the wheels look to be basically straight ahead.

Mon Jun 01, 2020 12:09 pm

The position of the wheel is not important at this point, you want the pitman arm installed correctly. I think it is supposed to be vertical when the box is centered but am not sure, other will surely chime in.

As others mentioned before tightening the nut you want to jam the pitman arm somehow so you don't put undue stresses on the internal parts of the box.

Mon Jun 01, 2020 12:20 pm

It looks to me that there is a line at 8pm. I can't see under the nut As I recall, the splines go all the way to the edge. You will need to loosen the nut and use a gear puller to pull the arm loose if the lines do not agree. The nut will need to come off to see if there is a line under the nut. If it agrees you won't need a puller but you will need a torque wrench. Frankly if the arm has been slipping the spines may be so damaged that you need a replacement arm. I don't see any swarf in your photo so I am not 100% sure that arm has been slipping. Even when the nut is tight the arm won't go all the way to the end of the splines.

Mon Jun 01, 2020 1:11 pm

Thank you very much. It is all making more sense now. I will pull the nut and look for a mark on the arm under the nut. I just bought a 32mm socket.

Mon Jun 01, 2020 2:00 pm

maybe this??

Mon Jun 01, 2020 3:08 pm

Thanks, yeah that is the only thing that I think could be it. The 32mm did not fit, I am going to buy a 34mm.

SGKent wrote: maybe this??

Mon Jun 01, 2020 3:21 pm

If 32mm doesn't fit your '73 steering box, you have a 36mm nut from a later bus. Early bays were 30mm, and some '73 boxes were 32mm.

Besides the early '73 steering boxes, there are no other 32mm fasteners on vintage Volkswagens.
Robbie

Mon Jun 01, 2020 3:38 pm

Thanks a lot, I just went to the store to buy a 34mm but luckily they were closed for the day so I didnt get it. I will go back tomorrow and get a 36mm. We have a 6pm curfew here and the stores close a few hours before that.

asiab3 wrote: If 32mm doesn't fit your '73 steering box, you have a 36mm nut from a later bus. Early bays were 30mm, and some '73 boxes were 32mm.

Besides the early '73 steering boxes, there are no other 32mm fasteners on vintage Volkswagens.
Robbie

Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:01 pm

Lucky you… ;)

Advice:
If you are removing one of these arms with a puller for the first time, you must leave that nut on the shaft during operation. (I like it flush with the outer threads on the shaft.) This way the puller can help separate the joints, but the assembly won't come flying off and injure you. This applies to all tapered components as well.

Opinion:
I use a thin smear of anti-sieze or grease on the splines before I put any torque past finger tight on the big nut. The other reason I've heard it called the "Jesus nut" is because that's who you'll be thinking of when you break the joint free for the first time with a puller. The splines are perfectly tapered to match the inside of the arm, so even a light torque on the nut creates a tight fit between the parts. This goes for tie rod/drag link/ball joint shafts, and other tapered assemblies on my car that see harsh environments.

Robbie

Edited for clarity.

Mon Jun 01, 2020 4:04 pm

Will do, thanks.

asiab3 wrote: Lucky you… ;)

Use a good smear of anti-sieze or grease on the splines before you put any torque past finger tight on the big nut. The other reason I've heard it called the "Jesus nut" is because that's who you'll be thinking of when you break the joint free for the first time with a puller. The splines are perfectly tapered to match the inside of the arm, so even a light torque on the nut creates a tight fit between the parts. You don't need rust binding all that up. This goes for tie rod/drag link/ball joints, steering wheel hubs, and other tapered assemblies on the car.

If you are removing one of these arms for the first time, you must leave that nut on the shaft during operation. (I like it flush with the outer threads on the shaft.) This way the puller can help separate the joints, but the assembly won't come flying off and injure you. This applies to all tapered components as well.

Robbie

Mon Jun 01, 2020 6:47 pm

Fairmounter wrote:

It doesn't look to me like the pitman arm could possibly be fully pressed onto the shaft, but is sitting 3-5mm out from the fully installed position. Do check that the splines have not been damaged.

Mon Jun 01, 2020 8:35 pm

Wildthings wrote: Fairmounter wrote:

It doesn't look to me like the pitman arm could possibly be fully pressed onto the shaft, but is sitting 3-5mm out from the fully installed position. Do check that the splines have not been damaged.

That could be a 1973 Gemmer steering gear. If so some it was made in France and has a plastic ring that sat in that area.

Mon Jun 01, 2020 9:09 pm

What’s the proper way to press the pitman arm on to the shaft?

Mon Jun 01, 2020 9:12 pm

you line the marks up, put the fold washer on, add the nut, maybe blue loctite, and use a torque wrench to the Bentley spec. Peen the washer over. That will do it. You can add some anti-seize on the splines if you like but it will still sound like a 410 going off the next time you take it off.

Tue Jun 02, 2020 3:08 pm

ok, i bought the 36mm socket and took off the nut. I found the marks and they are lined up. the splines on the arm are basically fully engaged with the splines on the shaft at this position, so I don't think the splines are damaged. I put the nut back on and tried to tighten it down to draw the arm further onto the shaft. It is not budging. I am using all of my strength with a normal sized 1/2" ratchet. I don't have a torque wrench here, but I am definitely in the range of 104 ft lbs of torque. I was expecting a hole through the shaft so that a cotter pin would go through and lock the castle nut, but there is no hole for a cotter pin. Should I get a large breaker bar and go past the torque spec to try to turn the nut more to draw the arm on the shaft? Should there be a cotter pin here through the castle nut?

Tue Jun 02, 2020 4:20 pm

that may not be the original nut. If that is the Gemmer gearbox then it took a different size nut than a regular gearbox, and a plastic sleeve. Neither will you be able to find. Use blue loctite on it and get a torque wrench. There have to be some near you that are reasonably priced and within a 5% to 10% range.

Tue Jun 02, 2020 4:36 pm

ok, so with no hole for a cotter pin I am assuming it does not take one. I have been looking through all of the pictures I can find of the shaft and nut (there really are not many). It seems that the older boxes used a cotter pin and the new boxes did not. Does that sound right? Also, there was no washer between the nut and arm. In some pictures I see a washer that gets bent over the edges of the arm. Do I need a washer here? Since the nut is close to the end of the threads, the washer will reduce the amount of thread contact on the nut. Just from looking at it, I would think that the arm should be further up the splines closer to the box. Should I be concerned with trying to tighten the nut to draw the arm further up the shaft? A breaker bar will allow me to apply more torque, but i was tightening it as hard as I could with a large ratchet and it was not moving at all. I guess the next step is to either get a breaker bar and try to force the nut around to move the arm up the shaft (this would be way past the torque spec), or get a torque wrench and basically leave it where it is. I will pick up some locktite while I am there for what hopefully will be the final installation of the nut.

SGKent wrote: that may not be the original nut. If that is the Gemmer gearbox then it took a different size nut than a regular gearbox, and a plastic sleeve. Neither will you be able to find. Use blue loctite on it and get a torque wrench. There have to be some near you that are reasonably priced and within a 5% to 10% range.