TheSamba.com :: View topic - Clicks but doesn't start- 79 baywindow

Mon Jun 08, 2020 5:48 pm

I've been having some starting problems. I got my bus running again around a month ago after putting in a new alternator wiring harness. When connecting the solenoid on the starter to the alternator wiring harness, I forgot to disconnect the battery and it sparked (I know I know.. rookie mistake). I then disconnected the battery and went through the rest of the process and got it running, but it would occasionally click but not start.

At first I didn't think much of it, but while I was driving it just sort of died out and wouldn't start again. I figured it was the ignition coil so I replaced that and it was working fine.. until a few days ago.

I jumped in the bus and turned the key and again.. clicked but wouldn't start. After a few tries I got it to start and got to work. After my shift ended I jumped back in my bus and it wouldn't start no matter how many times I tried.

My dad towed me home and I figured that it was a sticky solenoid. I didn't feel like getting into cleaning the solenoid so I ordered a new one. Put it in this morning but it didn't fix the problem.. still clicks but won't start. Dash lights all come on when I turn the key. Battery connections are good, tranny ground strap is good.

I'm wondering if it's the ignition switch or starter motor, but I can't seem to find anywhere that says that it clicks or not when the ignition switch is faulty. Thoughts? Maybe some advice as to how to test these components.

Thanks in advance-
Bode

Mon Jun 08, 2020 6:16 pm

if it clicks but the starter doesn't turn the engine over, since you replaced the solenoid then it is either a low battery, bad cable, bad starter, or an engine frozen issue. Make sure you can turn the engine over by hand. If it is good then measure the battery voltage across the battery when you try to start it. See how low it goes. Then measure between the post on the starter and the ground when you try to start it, see if it is the same. The battery can have voltage but fail to have enough amperage to start.

On our buses one of the bushings is in the trans bell housing. If it is worn out it can cause the starter to drag even though the starter is good.

In neutral, check twice, blocks in front of and behind wheel.

Mon Jun 08, 2020 8:44 pm

The battery post need to be shiny clean as do the insides of the terminals on the battery cables. Check your transmission ground strap as well. If you have the junky replacement style ends on your cables, then do yourself a favor and buy new cables a gauge or two larger, cut them to length, and install new ring terminals. Some FLAPS will do the install for you, you want to wire treated with dielectric grease and the joint between the cable and ring terminal sealed with heat shrink.

If you hooked the battery cables up backwards you may have blown the diodes in the alternator leading to a no charge situation.

Tue Jun 09, 2020 7:27 pm

I occasionally suffer with a sticking solenoid (another job on the next-time-the-engine-comes-out list), usually when I've had a long run on a hot day.

Couple of little taps with a solid socket handle and it jumps right back into action. Not a long term fix, obviously, but might help your troubleshooting.

Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:16 am

Had the same thing just recently. Turned out to be a bad starter.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-RzcsdFoRQ
This youtube video helped me to test it outside of the vehicule.

If you have never removed a starter => there's one bolt that needs to be undone in the engine compartment.
Took me a while to figure this out :roll:

Wed Jun 10, 2020 7:06 am

I spent long hours crawling around underneath the bus trying to figure out why it wouldn't start only to find it was this:

(positive cable corroded out inside)

Good luck!

Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:08 am

secretsubmariner wrote: I spent long hours crawling around underneath the bus trying to figure out why it wouldn't start only to find it was this:

(positive cable corroded out inside)

Good luck!

A voltage drop test of the wiring would have determined that within a few minutes. :-(

Mon Jun 15, 2020 2:09 pm

Thank you everybody for your input.

Its not a low battery because when I connect my battery charger it shows voltage above 12 and almost a full charge. I used the video shared by WarryBhite to test my starter and it looks like my starter works.

I started thoroughly cleaning my battery terminals and battery posts and I noticed that the copper wiring to the negative terminal (I just replaced the terminal with a new one from oriellys) just kinda slipped out. I pressed the metal down and re-connected the terminal to ensure a good connection, and then noticed that the terminal has a difficult time connecting to the post.

I opened up the terminal so that I could attempt to put one of those metal sleeves around the battery post to make a better connection, but the terminal wasnt big enough. Now that the terminal was open I was able to put it back on the post and make it snug to the base, and i tightened the crap out of it.

I was doing the voltage drop test while my brother turned the key, and after a few times the engine started turning all the sudden. I jumped back in the bus and tried it again and sure enough, I got it to start up (so not an engine frozen issue).

I turned it off and let it sit for a few minutes and then tried again, and then repeated the waiting and trying again a few times. It didnt turn every time, but it did sometimes. I drove it around for a bit and stopped multiple times after that and I was able to get it to start every time, but at the end of my drive I went to go start it a little later and it wouldnt start.

Since ive done so much electrical work on the bus recently ive had to disconnect the negative ground strap from the battery quite often. When I tighten it back up I usually give it a good push back and forth to make sure its tight enough on there, but often I dont tighten it quite enough and with some effort I get it to wiggle, which im pretty sure sort of strips the inside of the terminal a bit.

So in conclusion, should I just get a new terminal? After tightening it really good before the voltage drop test I was able to get it to start, but I also want to be sure that the wiring between the battery and the starter is good, so which wires connect the solenoid to the battery?

Sorry for the long explanation, I just want to give the most information possible so that you guys can inform me the best you can and so that future visitors can get better information to fix their problems.

Thanks, Bode

Mon Jun 15, 2020 2:49 pm

Wildthings wrote: secretsubmariner wrote: I spent long hours crawling around underneath the bus trying to figure out why it wouldn't start only to find it was this:

A voltage drop test of the wiring would have determined that within a few minutes. :-(

Yeah, I didn't have a second person to turn the key while I poked around under there at the time. On the bright side, I did get a lot of little things tidied up under the bus!

bodewinham wrote: so which wires connect the solenoid to the battery? I am pretty sure the only wire connecting the solenoid to the battery directly is the big + cable. The other wires go to the alternator and the ignition switch.

Mon Jun 15, 2020 5:06 pm

Okay cool, also what does the voltage drop test determine? Does it determine if my positive cable is bad? And how would I know, like what would bad results of a voltage drop test be, not being the same drop?

Mon Jun 15, 2020 5:55 pm

For $22 the local battery guy made me us some new battery cables out of 2 gauge welding wire. Cheap money well spent.

Mon Jun 15, 2020 6:29 pm

the voltage test tells you where the bad connection is. If you get 12V between battery posts when trying to start, you should get the same 12V between the stud on the starter and ground. If not check each cable for a bad connection.

Example - 12V between battery posts but not 12V between starter stud and ground. Next try between the negative battery post and ground when you try to start. It should be close to zero. If you suddenly get 12V between the negative terminal and ground then you negative battery cable is bad. Check between the battery positive post and the stud on the starter when you try to start. it should be close to zero. If it jumps way up the positive cable is bad.

Another way is to put the meter negative probe on the negative battery post. Then measure the voltage at the positive post when you try to start it. Good? Ok now try it on the cable terminal. Good? Now try it at the post? Good or bad? If bad sounds like the cable. If good do the same kind of test on the negative cable. Pretend you are flying over a freeway of electrons trying to figure where they aren't getting thru. Oh look - the bridge washed out - or there is an accident of corrosion and it is backing up electrons.

Thu Jun 18, 2020 3:19 pm

Okay so I was doing the voltage drop test between the post and ground and the connection at the post sparked.. I assume I was doing it in the right place, it was the one that said should be getting 12v+ when the key is turned from the picture sent before. It sparked when the key turned and even when the key wasn't turned.. and I was getting 0 V.

I ran the test between the negative battery post and ground and it was close to 0 with key turned, but i'm hesitant to do it between the positive post and the post on the solenoid because i'm worried im doing something wrong here.

Also before I replaced my ignition coil I ran the tests taht the bentley manual suggested. My multimeter wasn't sensitive enough to show .55-.75 ohms for the primary test, but the secondary test was supposed to show 3000-5000 ohms and it showed close to 0.

Now I have a new one, and i tested it again and the same thing. Secondary test only gives 4-5 ohms.

So, for the voltage drop test am I doing something wrong to make it shock, or does that mean theres something wrong with the wiring or something? And i have no idea what the deal with my coil is..

Sat Jun 20, 2020 1:50 am

Looks like i figured it out.. figured it had to be the positive battery cable, so i pulled it out and it looks like the copper was exposed in multiple places. replaced the cable with a 46 inch and it’s worked great since this morning.

Thank you everybody for your help, as always, VERY much appreciated