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Sun Jun 14, 2020 9:59 pm

Is there any trick to getting the lower bolt off of the alternator? I have an ‘85 westy, but I think the hardware is the same in the other WBX vans. It looks like a carriage bolt with a square head on the front side, but I cannot for the life of me get the head to pop out. I have been tapping hard at the opposite end with a nut threaded down to the end to protect the thread from the blows. Aside from spraying WD-40 and continuing to try to tap if out, what can I do? I have been working on this off and on for two days.

It might be easier to remove if I could take off the whole bracket, but I don’t see a way of accessing the nuts that hold the bracket on without removing the coolant pipe in front of them (the one that goes to the water pump).

Mon Jun 15, 2020 3:15 am

Massachusetts huh?

Probably a healthy case of Galvanic Corrosion.

A typical snow belt malady caused by mixing aluminum, steel and road deicers.

Take the other mounting bolts out so you can over adjust the belt tension,

Gently start rocking the alternator back and forth on that carriage bolt.

If you are lucky, the bolt will not break but the corrosion with turn to a powder and loosen up.

Clean things up well and before reassembly coat the hardware well with ECK.

https://www.vannay.com/index.php?m=3

Dave

Mon Jun 15, 2020 10:40 am

Ah yes, been there, lived with that one..... I had to gently tap back and forth with a pin punch and hammer for 45 minutes, with plenty of penetrating oil being shot at either end of the bolt before it started its slow passage backwards out of the Altn....... :roll: :roll:
I was installing the GoWesty Altn. Bracket Upgrade, so luckily there was a new bolt to take the place of the stock one.

Mon Jun 15, 2020 10:57 am

Thank you, guys. That's good advice. I think I will just have to keep rocking it, spraying it, and tapping it. More rusty gunk seems to come out each time I spray it, so I am on the right track.

Dave, I have the belt, cables, and adjustment bolt off. The only thing attaching the alternator to the van is this bolt through this bracket. This reminds me of something I forgot to mention in the first post: when I rock the alternator side to side, the bolt rocks with it. That means that either (or both) the square hole for the carriage bolt or the carriage bolt's square head is rounded out. I don't think that has any impact on my approach, though.

This is also a lesson learned the hard way for me. I replaced the passenger side head gasket over the winter, so I had everything off, including the alternator. I had this same problem back then, but since I was taking everything off, I just removed the bracket with the alternator still attached. I tried getting the bolt out on the bench, but gave up when I realized it was fairly stuck. I put it back in as-is thinking that if I ever had to remove the alternator, I would just remove the whole bracket again. Well, that's not so easy (or even possible, it seems) with the cooling and exhaust systems put back on! I should have put in the effort back then to free the bolt when I had easier access. #-o

Mon Jun 15, 2020 11:09 am

WD40 sucks, use something better. Assuming the bolt is stuck in the alternator and not the mount maybe heat the pivot area of alternator with a propane torch up to 250°F and use ATF or 0w20 on the bolt. A little diesel mixed with the oil would further thin it. With a spring bottom oil can or a small syringe you can just apply a tiny amount of oil at a time.

Mon Jun 15, 2020 11:11 am

Muftobration wrote: Thank you, guys. That's good advice. I think I will just have to keep rocking it, spraying it, and tapping it. More rusty gunk seems to come out each time I spray it, so I am on the right track.

Dave, I have the belt, cables, and adjustment bolt off. The only thing attaching the alternator to the van is this bolt through this bracket. This reminds me of something I forgot to mention in the first post: when I rock the alternator side to side, the bolt rocks with it. That means that either (or both) the square hole for the carriage bolt or the carriage bolt's square head is rounded out. I don't think that has any impact on my approach, though.

This is also a lesson learned the hard way for me. I replaced the passenger side head gasket over the winter, so I had everything off, including the alternator. I had this same problem back then, but since I was taking everything off, I just removed the bracket with the alternator still attached. I tried getting the bolt out on the bench, but gave up when I realized it was fairly stuck. I put it back in as-is thinking that if I ever had to remove the alternator, I would just remove the whole bracket again. Well, that's not so easy (or even possible, it seems) with the cooling and exhaust systems put back on! I should have put in the effort back then to free the bolt when I had easier access. #-o

I had my 4 year old son help me with this years ago (he absolutely loves helping daddy with Appa)! I had him rock it that alternator back and forth (while he was standing on his knees in the van) as I knocked that insane bolt with a wee sledge I have. And wouldn't you know, the mother began to slowly give enough.

I also have an 85 and they have a remarkable tendency. They are such joys! Hahaha! If it doesn't snap like an aux regulator bolt or Thermostat bolt, then it just flat refuses to come... LOL! Then you get bolts that are constantly exposed to all kinds of water and rubbish and they come off so easily you think they were just installed yesterday. Hahaha! Good luck and keep us posted.

Mon Jun 15, 2020 11:12 am

Wildthings wrote: WD40 sucks, use something better. Assuming the bolt is stuck in the alternator and not the mount maybe heat the pivot area of alternator with a propane torch up to 250°F and use ATF or 0w20 on the bolt. A little diesel mixed with the oil would further thin it. With a spring bottom oil can or a small syringe you can just apply a tiny amount of oil at a time.

You know I have seen you mention this diesel and oil solution on several threads (pun intended!!)... do you have a proportion that works well for you? I wouldn't mind trying this.

Mon Jun 15, 2020 11:21 am

i used a long socket extension under the intake manifold and tapped it out. rock it, tap it, rock it, tap it. once it was out enough i used a pry bar to get it the rest of the way out.

the real fun it getting the washer and nut back on!

Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:32 am

Finally, some progress! With liberal application of a propane torch, WD-40 (sorry, wildthings. It’s all I have), rocking, and tapping with a hammer, I have managed to get the bolt head moving. This was last night.

Bolt head visibly proud on both sides:

Here’s the nut I’ve been banging on to get the bolt out. I turned it a few threads off the end to get some more distance for hammering:

When I get it out, I’m planning to buy a new alternator and refurbish this one to keep as a spare. I think this might be the original alternator. It has a Bosch sticker on it, but it’s not a remanufacture sticker. If so, that’s a great service life! I’m planning to get a Duralast Gold alternator from a local Auto Zone for a a few reasons:
1. It has a lifetime warranty
2. They have stores everywhere, so I should be able to swap it on the spot if it ever fails.
3. I’m planning to keep my current alternator and their core charge is only $40. The unit is $119, so that’s $159 + tax out of pocket. Cheaper than any Bosch rebuilds I’ve found, and new rather than rebuilt.

With that said, would anyone care to scare me away from a Duralast product likely made out of chinesium?

Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:48 am

I can't remember having much trouble access the bolts for the alternator bracket, but it has been a while at this point in time. Can you not use a wrench from underneath? Don't have a fully dressed WBXer around to look at right now.

Tue Jun 16, 2020 11:36 am

I would install the go westy alternator support brackets too.

Tue Jun 16, 2020 12:22 pm

Wiggle your alternator up and down and punch the bolt, it already moved, you're close!

Tue Jun 16, 2020 12:37 pm

I have the GoWesty bracket and this:

This really lessens the forces on the OEM bracket and fasteners.

You can see the weld added to the OEM bracket as well, one more thing to add strength to the poorly engineered factory setup. Since the OP bracket appears to be the original design, it would behoove him to buy the upgraded factory bracket at this time, one less point of failure.

.

Tue Jun 16, 2020 2:45 pm

That GoWesty bracket looks like a good addition, and the weld. I don’t have a welder, but that looks like a good beginner project to start with once I get one.

Wildthings wrote: I can't remember having much trouble access the bolts for the alternator bracket, but it has been a while at this point in time. Can you not use a wrench from underneath? Don't have a fully dressed WBXer around to look at right now.

Unfortunately, I don’t see any way I could access those nuts. The coolant pipe that crosses in front of them makes it impossible to access them with a socket. The exhaust is in the way from accessing underneath. I can get a short wrench in from the driver’s side, but the wrench can’t fit over the nuts sideways due to the tiny clearance between the nuts and the top of the bracket. They can’t be accessed from the passenger side because that’s where the coolant pipe connects and the top is blocked by the bracket. When I had everything apart, it was hard enough to access them from below. I think it’s nearly impossible with everything together.

I’m out right now to get the new alternator. I’ll try to get the old alternator off when I get home and let you know how it went.

Tue Jun 16, 2020 5:47 pm

a thin brass or aluminum rod from home depot might help u tap it out or the extension if small enough.

Tue Jun 16, 2020 6:22 pm

Put an air wrench or impact on that bolt and spin the heck out of it! Or even ratchet it like a mad man. Bust the corrosion, powder it, tap the bolt out.

Tue Jun 16, 2020 6:42 pm

Are you replacing the bracket and nut/bolt so that it is super easy to swap out the alternator and get another one from autozone?

Tue Jun 16, 2020 9:15 pm

syncrodoka wrote: Are you replacing the bracket and nut/bolt so that it is super easy to swap out the alternator and get another one from autozone?

Yes. Well, same bracket, but I'm planning to use a new nut and bolt with anti-seize applied to the section of the bolt that runs through the alternator housing. I will also order the GoWesty support bracket that wildthings linked.

I'm planning to rebuild my current alternator and keep it in the van as a backup. I'm sure I will get sick of carrying it around at some point, but right now, the sting is still fresh. This failure, compounded with some highly confusing OXS and battery warning lights on the dash, left me in a very dangerous situation with my family in the van. I want to make sure I am fully prepared for any similar failure.

P.S. I did not have time to bang on the bolt again tonight. I picked up the alternator this evening, so I will hopefully have everything back up and running tomorrow.

Tue Jun 16, 2020 9:40 pm

I am not sure from what you have said if you have gotten the bolt out of not. If it has not moved further than your last picture shows, tighten the nut and draw the bolt back towards you and then beat it in again. Repeat this several times and the crud should begin to turn to dust.

Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:47 pm

I finally got the bolt out this evening. Thank you all for the tips along the way.

The bolt was absolutely disgusting, so I replaced it with a new one.

I applied Permatex anti-seize to the bolt shaft. Dave, I did not have access to the galvanization prevention paint you mentioned: ECK. Do you buy it online?

Before hooking up the wiring, I wanted to clean the contacts. The alternator-to-starter wire had some corrosion where it terminates at the alternator.

I left the terminations in a bag of vinegar while my wife and I visited her parents and cleaned the contacts with a brush when I got home.

Not perfect, but better.

The alternator works. It puts out 13.85 - 14 volts while the engine is running at idle, which is great. However, I noticed that the battery was only getting 13.19 - 13.25 volts at its terminals. I'm still troubleshooting this, but I suspect bad grounds. I don't recall seeing any issues with the connection from the starter to the battery, but I have had several ground issues. The battery's ground strap is slightly corroded where it meets the body and there is some rust nearby, so cleaning that is my first order of business.

I also replaced the battery positive strap tonight. The original was broken, possibly contributing to my charge issues, I thought.

I'll have time tomorrow to hopefully conclude this saga!