TheSamba.com :: View topic - 1200cc engine. Is there a market for these?

Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:51 pm

I bought a dune buggy for a father son project that I was told had a 1600 sp engine.

My son & I got it running, but it was putting out some smoke that never cleared up. We adjusted the valves, but didn't notice much change. After pulling the heads I learned it was a 1200. Now we are going to replace the rings, get it running again and likely sell it.

I don't think it's going to have enough power for what we ultimately want our buggy to be. I realize this is subjective and regional, but what is a running 1200 cc engine worth? Cylinders measure 77mm. We'd just like to recover some of the money we spent on this to put towards the motor we'll now have to buy for the project.

We are in the San Diego area. Opinions welcome. Thanks.

Mon Jun 22, 2020 1:36 pm

… the 1200 is a great engine - there waza' time when, I wanted nothing else - the VW world is geared to (the largest stock production) 1600, nowa' daze - All Formula V (grand prix style) race cars could only use a prescribed 1200 powerplant - 1200 - 1300 - 1500 - 1600SP + 1600DPs are all good choices - have fun - z

Mon Jun 22, 2020 3:41 pm

It could also be a 1300 engine that has never been converted into a 1600 during a rebuild. A look at the intake ports can tell the 2 different engines apart. On the 1200 the intake ports go strait down into the heads. On the 1300 engine the intake ports are angled outward slightly like on 1500 single port engines. Here is a view from my 1600 single port:

I'd like a pair of 1300 heads that haven't been opened up for larger than 77mm cylinders.

Mon Jun 22, 2020 4:07 pm

Thanks for that info to help me confirm what I have. My intakes go straight down.

The numbers on the case come up as a 1200 also. I didn't cross check the numbers when I bought it (as a disassembled buggy). Even so the seller would have just told me it was converted to a 1600 and I wouldn't have known the difference. Buyer beware I guess.

I'm ordering the new rings tomorrow. Are there any differences in the ring sets between the typical vendors? Any brands recommended to get or stay away from?

Mon Jun 22, 2020 4:23 pm

I like grant rings. Wolfsburg west and others sell em.
check your pistons first . some are 2 x 2 x 4 some are 2.5 x 2.5 x 4
and can possibly be oversized as well? check everything twice. buy once .

Steve

Mon Jun 22, 2020 6:14 pm

mpc wrote: Now we are going to replace the rings, get it running again and likely sell it.
...but what is a running 1200 cc engine worth?
I had a tired, but complete, running 40HP for sale a couple of years ago at a very fair price. Nobody wanted it. I eventually just gave it away...but even had a hard time finding someone to take the damn thing for free :?

Tue Jun 23, 2020 6:53 am

rcooled wrote: mpc wrote: Now we are going to replace the rings, get it running again and likely sell it.
...but what is a running 1200 cc engine worth?
I had a tired, but complete, running 40HP for sale a couple of years ago at a very fair price. Nobody wanted it. I eventually just gave it away...but even had a hard time finding someone to take the damn thing for free :?

This phenomenon began years ago when everyone was convinced they needed a dual port engine. The last two oval window cars I bought had 1600dp stuffed in. The right person is out there for 1200cc engine. They are usually older and appreciate things that are period correct especially if they have a 50s or 60s car and they want it to appear stock. I drove a type 2 with 36hp, now that’s slow😀

Tue Jun 23, 2020 7:06 am

Zundfolge1432 wrote: rcooled wrote: mpc wrote: Now we are going to replace the rings, get it running again and likely sell it.
...but what is a running 1200 cc engine worth?
I had a tired, but complete, running 40HP for sale a couple of years ago at a very fair price. Nobody wanted it. I eventually just gave it away...but even had a hard time finding someone to take the damn thing for free :?

This phenomenon began years ago when everyone was convinced they needed a dual port engine. The last two oval window cars I bought had 1600dp stuffed in. The right person is out there for 1200cc engine. They are usually older and appreciate things that are period correct especially if they have a 50s or 60s car and they want it to appear stock. I drove a type 2 with 36hp, now that’s slow😀

I agree, there is a crowd that appreciates the 40hp engine in order to keep things period correct.

I have a 40hp engine which I've given lots of love, just because it was what was in my '59 when I bought it, and to me a 13/15/1600 isn't enough of a "jump" in power in my mind to make me want to purchase one. So I've got this big bore 40hp and a WW Okrasa fitted 36hp for a little extra "zing" when I want it. Then I have a huge 2332 in the works into which I'm funneling the dollars.

I will say if a '66 and up engine came at me for a good cost I wouldn't turn it down, but to the OP 40 horses aren't all that bad if you give them a chance.

Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:50 am

Thanks for the feedback and especially the info on the different thicknesses of rings. It appears mine takes 2x2x4 rings.

This is my first time tearing into a VW engine, so I appreciate the help.
We'll get it back together and see what happens. It's a good learning experience for my son and I if nothing else.

Tue Jun 23, 2020 2:23 pm

Instead if reringing the engine you could install a big bore kit. An 83 mm kit requires no machine work and increases the displacement to 1.4 liters. That should be plenty of power for a light buggy so long as you don't go with huge back tires.

First things first though... You want to make sure the crank end play is not excessive. If the #1 main bearing is loose in the case it is time to split the case and rebuild, or replace the little 1200. It's also a good idea to check the cam lift to make sure there are no flat lobes before spending money on the top end.

Tue Jun 23, 2020 6:47 pm

Just replacing rings may not solve the problem. If the rings have gone bad also check the valve guides for excess wear. It would also be a good idea to replace the rod bearings. I do agree that on the street a 40 HP is a good choice. even driven hard they will get close 30 MPG on the hwy. The power is acquitted on the flat but they do dog down on long steep hills. The 40 HP is not the best choice to be driven hard off road. You take a chance of breaking the crank shaft.

Fri Jun 26, 2020 12:44 pm

Thanks for the ideas and recommendations. I received parts very quickly from Wolfsburg West and we'll put it back together this weekend and see how it runs.

Either way, new rings is as deep as I'm going to get into this engine. I don't have any interest in using it for our family buggy.

My son has a single seat buggy frame that someone gave him. If he wants to pursue building that buggy this 1200 would probably be fine for that (if I'm not able to sell it at a reasonable price).

I appreciate the resources here on the site.