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Mon Jul 06, 2020 4:07 pm

So I sent a Type 3 case to a shop for an align bore, to have the Type 1 oil pressure sender location tapped, and to get a dipstick tube installed. The plan was to build a stock single port 1600 for my 1970 Riviera. The case came back looking a little off to me. This pic is looking down on the oil pressure sender location from above:

I was told that the case started to crack while they were tapping the oil pressure sender hole and that the brass fitting and the JB Weld were a way to fix it. The shop owner was very optimistic that this repair would last forever and that they do it all the time. It makes sense to me that the shop would stand by their repair rather than say “we goofed and I wouldn’t trust this case anymore.” I showed it to other people who said it’s a hack of a repair and the case is no longer reliable. I guess I’m going for a 3rd or 4th or 5th opinion here. I already sank a bunch of money into a DPR crank, rods, flywheel, and etc. but I don’t want to throw good money after bad (as the saying goes) by building a motor in this case.

Would you run this case in a stock single port 1600 in a slow, heavy, and fully loaded 1970 Riviera Camper? I’m talking about a summer road trip in hot NY weather up and down hills and mountains with hours of interstate driving. My concern is that the case will finish cracking on day 2 of our trip leaving me, my wife, and our 4 1/2 month old baby stuck on the side of the highway. Or is this case better off in the scrap heap?

Mon Jul 06, 2020 4:51 pm

The only experience I have with JB Weld was on a cracked radiator. It held up absolutely fine. Not the same application.. but my point is don't knock the JB Weld.

Mon Jul 06, 2020 5:22 pm

I have fixed cracks there before, Weld it up, mill flat then retap.

Mon Jul 06, 2020 5:25 pm

D/A/N wrote: So I sent a Type 3 case to a shop for an align bore, to have the Type 1 oil pressure sender location tapped, and to get a dipstick tube installed. The plan was to build a stock single port 1600 for my 1970 Riviera. The case came back looking a little off to me. This pic is looking down on the oil pressure sender location from above:

I was told that the case started to crack while they were tapping the oil pressure sender hole and that the brass fitting and the JB Weld were a way to fix it. The shop owner was very optimistic that this repair would last forever and that they do it all the time. It makes sense to me that the shop would stand by their repair rather than say “we goofed and I wouldn’t trust this case anymore.” I showed it to other people who said it’s a hack of a repair and the case is no longer reliable. I guess I’m going for a 3rd or 4th or 5th opinion here. I already sank a bunch of money into a DPR crank, rods, flywheel, and etc. but I don’t want to throw good money after bad (as the saying goes) by building a motor in this case.

Would you run this case in a stock single port 1600 in a slow, heavy, and fully loaded 1970 Riviera Camper? I’m talking about a summer road trip in hot NY weather up and down hills and mountains with hours of interstate driving. My concern is that the case will finish cracking on day 2 of our trip leaving me, my wife, and our 4 1/2 month old baby stuck on the side of the highway. Or is this case better off in the scrap heap? ………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………...what the shop did .was .they ran the tap in .with out drilling the hole first using the right drill bit .for the tap . jb weld is not a good fix. it does break down over time.they make two typs of jb weld. one jb weld that sets up fast . its not the strongest . the jb weld that's stronger takes 24 hrs to set up . lock tight makes a thread sealer that sets up fast.and is super strong. I cant remember what the name they called it .my friend that owns a vw shop told me about it .he has used it for years on cracked oil sender holes .he has never had any cases come back . but it cost almost $30.00 for a small tube. but it works great. gas oil does not break it down. like jb weld does .if it was me . and go to a napa store buy the lock tight sealer... in the past I have used jb weld on vw motors and it failed to stop oil leaks in a short time.. just my two cents spencerfvee

Mon Jul 06, 2020 6:26 pm

I'm not comfortable with the JB Weld repair, though I've not had to resort to that on any of my ~ dozen home-built engines. And I've never tried that "long cure" stronger version. I did have a Type 3 case converted to Type 1 by Rimco about 25 years ago, which has held up well in my limited hobby driving.

How about this: I think that the same drilling/galley for the Type 1 oil pressure sender goes rearward to the rear face of the engine* and is closed off with an aluminum press-in plug from the factory. On this photo, that original rear plug has been removed and replaced with an Allen bolt. Your case should have the original pressed-in plug. If so, and IF that is the same galley, you could use that better JB Weld and permanently glue in that brass plug. Then have the (or another) shop pull the rear plug, tap the hole "properly" using a tapered NPT, and carefully insert a new sender. I don't know why this was not done in the past for other type 3 cases; seems like nearly a no-brainer.

* Looks like that is the same galley; this is a wonderfully done cut-away-

Tue Jul 07, 2020 1:05 am

Find a new or "newer" case, and find a new machine shop.
NTP threads-taps get wider the deeper you go, cracking a stock case by over tightening the oil sender is a common rookie mistake,
but for a machine shop, these guys should know better.

Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:41 am

Rome wrote: I'm not comfortable with the JB Weld repair, though I've not had to resort to that on any of my ~ dozen home-built engines. And I've never tried that "long cure" stronger version. I did have a Type 3 case converted to Type 1 by Rimco about 25 years ago, which has held up well in my limited hobby driving.

How about this: I think that the same drilling/galley for the Type 1 oil pressure sender goes rearward to the rear face of the engine* and is closed off with an aluminum press-in plug from the factory. On this photo, that original rear plug has been removed and replaced with an Allen bolt. Your case should have the original pressed-in plug. If so, and IF that is the same galley, you could use that better JB Weld and permanently glue in that brass plug. Then have the (or another) shop pull the rear plug, tap the hole "properly" using a tapered NPT, and carefully insert a new sender. I don't know why this was not done in the past for other type 3 cases; seems like nearly a no-brainer.

* Looks like that is the same galley; this is a wonderfully done cut-away- ...........................................………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..your right on rome then he does not have to rely on jb weld .I have done that years ago on 3 cases. I for got about doing it .that way he can move the oil sending fitting to the top of the case. like a type 3 case . I drilled and taped a plug.. to block off the old oil sending hole that was cracked .spencerfvee

Tue Jul 07, 2020 3:44 am

How in the fuck did they manage to crack that? And told you will last forever?

And where this be machine shop?

Tue Jul 07, 2020 5:33 am

D/A/N wrote:
I was told that the case started to crack while they were tapping the oil pressure sender hole and that the brass fitting and the JB Weld were a way to fix it. The shop owner was very optimistic that this repair would last forever and that they do it all the time. It makes sense to me that the shop would stand by their repair rather than say “we goofed and I wouldn’t trust this case anymore.”
The owner is optimistic because he does not want to eat the case.

Sounds like you don't trust his repair so ask him to repair correctly or replace the case.

Tue Jul 07, 2020 6:02 am

Machine shop owes you a replacement case or at least welding and retapping the boss...

JB weld is pretty good stuff, but its not a repair I would accept at that location...

Dale

Tue Jul 07, 2020 6:06 am

grandpa red wrote: The owner is optimistic because he does not want to eat the case.

Sounds like you don't trust his repair so ask him to repair correctly or replace the case.

+1

I would not be satisfied with this repair, especially with their admission that they "do it all the time" and would look to another shop in the future. A machine shop should know better.

Why did they tap the hole? Were the existing threads borked?

Tue Jul 07, 2020 7:37 am

Lingwendil wrote: grandpa red wrote: The owner is optimistic because he does not want to eat the case.

Sounds like you don't trust his repair so ask him to repair correctly or replace the case.

+1

I would not be satisfied with this repair, especially with their admission that they "do it all the time" and would look to another shop in the future. A machine shop should know better.

Why did they tap the hole? Were the existing threads borked?

It’s a Type 3 case so the oil pressure sender area is untapped from the factory. I wanted to be able to use the case for a motor in my 70 bus as well as for a potential backup for my Type 3.

The work was done at a well known VW place. You figure a high volume machine shop would have a TIG welder laying around for just such an emergency......

Tue Jul 07, 2020 8:33 am

I'd would use that case on a stock 1600 SP and trust it. I do feel they were a little stingy with the JB WELD. It needs about 200% more to build up the area enough to be a solid repair.

Tue Jul 07, 2020 8:47 am

vwracerdave wrote: I'd would use that case on a stock 1600 SP and trust it. I do feel they were a little stingy with the JB WELD. It needs about 200% more to build up the area enough to be a solid repair.

So I should buy a tube of JB Weld and have at it?

Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:37 am

My educated guess, is that if you put a socket on that brass fitting, and loosen it up, the existing jb weld breaks free easy, and your thankful you did. Once you put that engine together, you dont have this opportunity to do a nice job to fix it well any longer.

Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:56 am

jpaull wrote: My educated guess, is that if you put a socket on that brass fitting, and loosen it up, the existing jb weld breaks free easy, and your thankful you did. Once you put that engine together, you dont have this opportunity to do a nice job to fix it well any longer.

This, fix it correct or bitch about it later.

Tue Jul 07, 2020 10:13 am

Get it welded up, re-tap and send the guy the bill.

I have had them welded before.
No big deal.

Tue Jul 07, 2020 10:32 am

not on mine. if it's wedled make sure the gally is clean and clear when done.

Tue Jul 07, 2020 10:49 am

D/A/N wrote: Lingwendil wrote: grandpa red wrote: The owner is optimistic because he does not want to eat the case.

Sounds like you don't trust his repair so ask him to repair correctly or replace the case.

+1

I would not be satisfied with this repair, especially with their admission that they "do it all the time" and would look to another shop in the future. A machine shop should know better.

Why did they tap the hole? Were the existing threads borked?

It’s a Type 3 case so the oil pressure sender area is untapped from the factory. I wanted to be able to use the case for a motor in my 70 bus as well as for a potential backup for my Type 3.

The work was done at a well known VW place. You figure a high volume machine shop would have a TIG welder laying around for just such an emergency...... ………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………Dan what is more easy . to use the JB weld as a cheap fix and terll your self it will hold .or do it right the first time . think about this your 30 miles from home its sunday no shops are open theres no stores with in 15 miles . smoke is coming from the back of your vw. you stop oil all over the road . the motor is hot. how are you going to fix a leak ? along the road . some times the hard way is the easy way .do what you want Dan good luck spencerfvee

Tue Jul 07, 2020 11:08 am

spencerfvee wrote: D/A/N wrote: Lingwendil wrote: grandpa red wrote: The owner is optimistic because he does not want to eat the case.

Sounds like you don't trust his repair so ask him to repair correctly or replace the case.

+1

I would not be satisfied with this repair, especially with their admission that they "do it all the time" and would look to another shop in the future. A machine shop should know better.

Why did they tap the hole? Were the existing threads borked?

It’s a Type 3 case so the oil pressure sender area is untapped from the factory. I wanted to be able to use the case for a motor in my 70 bus as well as for a potential backup for my Type 3.

The work was done at a well known VW place. You figure a high volume machine shop would have a TIG welder laying around for just such an emergency...... ………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………Dan what is more easy . to use the JB weld as a cheap fix and tell your self it will hold .or fix it right the first time . think about this your 30 miles from home its Sunday. no shops are open theres no stores with in 15 miles . smoke is coming from the back of your vw. you stop and get out of your car .you see oil all over the road . the motor is hot. you lost a lot of oil .ask your self how are you going to fix a leak ? along the road . some times the hard way is the easy way .do what you want Dan good luck spencerfvee