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Mon Jul 06, 2020 6:19 pm

Just went to start my 71 bug, and the key wont turn past the on position. The key is not stuck, I can remove and insert it freely, but wont go to the start position. I have been having a problem with my battery draining, so maybe this has something to do with that.

Mon Jul 06, 2020 6:46 pm

I would start with some WD-40 on the key and wiggling that into the ignition, if that doesn’t work try a bit in the ignition. If that frees it up I would use some graphite lube in the ignition. If it’s still stuck you got to take it out and see what’s going on and find out if it’s the mechanical portion or electrical portion.

Mon Jul 06, 2020 9:33 pm

If lubing the key opening doesn't help you probably need to take the ignition switch (electrical) portion apart. When you start the engine and turn the key back from START to the ON/RUN position there is a small spring loaded lock that prevents the key from being turned back to the START position. This lock is reset when you turn the key to OFF. It sounds like your lock is not resetting.

If your electrical part of the ignition switch is an OE VW part, I would consider carefully opening it up inside a box (watch out of springs and ball bearings that will come flying out). Once you take them apart and spend 5min studying the mechanism you can probably clean the contacts, re-grease with some dielectric grease and put it all back together.

Tue Jul 07, 2020 5:51 am

Yes. If it is an original part and you can make it work, great! Otherwise you may be looking at a replacement switch. These are not necessarily known for their high quality though.
The other part of the switch with keys is also available but again the quality warning is applicable.

https://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=VWC%2D111%2D905%2D865%2DF

Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:30 am

Ash man gave you his condensed version, here’s his excellent step by step with pictures:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=455734

I’ve replaced both mechanical and electrical portions in a 71 Super. I had no problems with the mechanical replacement, it does take a different style key and sticks out a bit from the steering column, so if that bothers you source a NOS one. When I replaced the electrical portion I went for the more expensive Wolfsburgwest west one, and it failed pretty quickly. I ended up getting one from my FLAPS, which was listed as a 71 but was actually a 72 style that required some modification to get it to fit, but that one has lasted years as a daily and is still going. So my recommendation is if you’re going to replace the electrical portion, try a 72 style or go with NOS.

Tue Jul 07, 2020 10:04 am

My 1970 and my 1971 are still on their factory lock cylinders. I've owned each since the 1970s and have replaced the electrical part of the ignition switch once on each.

Run the wires on the new switch correctly, DON'T get lazy and cut/use butt connectors.

Tue Jul 07, 2020 10:22 am

Relyt wrote: Ash man gave you his condensed version, here’s his excellent step by step with pictures:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=455734

I ended up getting one from my FLAPS, which was listed as a 71 but was actually a 72 style that required some modification to get it to fit...
'71 was the last year with wires soldered to the electrical portion of the ignition switch. From '72-onward the electrical portion had male terminals and a plug at the end of the wires.

At the time I replaced my '71 ignition switch (my non-US '75 Beetle had a '71 steering column) they were much more expensive than the '72 version. Also, I didn't realize how much better the stock OE switch was compared with the aftermarket switches. I should have kept the OE switch. I dumped it thinking the NEW switch would be better.

If I had to do it again, I would use a '72 ignition switch and add female terminals to the end of the wires. Because the terminals are so close together you cannot use pre-insulated female terminals. You would need to use non-insulated terminals but I would wrap them in shrink wrap to avoid shorting between terminals. The other option is to source a '72 plug and terminate the wires in the plug. You will need locking female terminals.
The benefit of using the '72 switch is it usually has an extra function (power on OFF) that the OE '71 didn't have.

Tue Jul 07, 2020 10:56 am

Havent had a chance to look at it again. I will try spraying a little WD, or Kroil, and see is anything happens.

Tue Jul 07, 2020 6:49 pm

So, sprayed wd 40 in the lock, nothing changed. I can turn the key from off, to on, and slightly beyond that, but not into the spring loaded start mode. Does this sound like its the mechanical part of it, or the electrical part. The key looks like an original vw key, so I think the mechanical part is original, but Im pretty sure the electrical part was replaced, because it has a bunch of electrical tape holding the loom together, and you can see were wires were spliced.
Ashman, so if I use a 1972 electrical part, can I still use the mechanical part I have, assuming its still good? If I use a 1972 switch, does that gain me an accessory mode?

Tue Jul 07, 2020 11:08 pm

joemama wrote: Does this sound like its the mechanical part of it, or the electrical part. The key looks like an original vw key, so I think the mechanical part is original, but Im pretty sure the electrical part was replaced, because it has a bunch of electrical tape holding the loom together, and you can see were wires were spliced.
The stock mechanism that prevents the key from being turned to START a second time is actually inside the electrical portion of the ignition switch assembly. Here is a pic from vw-resource.com. You can see the electrical part on the left, the key tumbler on the right and the steering wheel lock in the middle.

joemama wrote: Ashman, so if I use a 1972 electrical part, can I still use the mechanical part I have, assuming its still good? If I use a 1972 switch, does that gain me an accessory mode?
None of the VW ignition switches included an "Accessory" position. OFF - ON/RUN - START are the only three positions you will ever see with the stock switch.
The extra functions are in extra wires. From '71-and later the "X" wire (black/yellow) was added to power non-critical ignition switched devices that were NOT needed while cranking the engine. The headlights and later wipers and blower were moved to this circuit. When the key is turned to START this "X" circuit looses power until the key is turned back to ON/RUN. This frees up any current being consumed by the "X" circuit devices for the starter.
The "Su" circuit was a ground circuit that was grounded while the ignition key was inserted into the ignition switch. This would ground the door buzzer when the door was opened with the key still in the ignition. In later years, I believe this circuit was powered (12v+) when the key was inserted.
Some ignition switches will also have an extra wire so the switch has both a ground and a hot wire. My aftermarket '71 switch had an extra wire which has 12v+ while the key was removed... seems like the perfect wire for an alarm system.

The stock ignition switch needs at a minimum the following:
#30 (red) - constant 12v+ INPUT
#15 (black) - ignition switched 12v OUTPUT while key is in the ON/RUN and START positions.
#50 (red/black) - ignition switched starter solenoid OUTPUT
#X (black/yellow) - ignition switched 12v OUTPUT while the key is in the ON/RUN position only
#Su (grey?) - grounded while key inserted

What other terminals does your '72 switch have? Is there a terminal number embossed next to the terminal?

You should also look at the shape of the hole in the center of the new ignition switch. This hole is an asymmetrical key hole that should match the male end of the key tumbler. Make sure the shape of the key hole matches the end of the key tumbler.

There is sometimes a pin that extends from the key tumbler into the key hole that makes contact with a brass tab. This is how the key ground circuit knows when the key is inserted.

Wed Jul 08, 2020 5:55 pm

So, removed the steering wheel, unbolted the turn signal switch and moved it aside. I removed the 2 screws and cover plate, and ready to remove the switch. I have the key turned right as far as I can and the steering wheel lock is not on, but I cant get the switch to come out. Should I be able to just pull it out? I know there is some sort of set screw, but I thought I would have access to that after I pulled the switch assembly out?

Wed Jul 08, 2020 7:00 pm

There should be a small hole on the housing. You push a nail thru it to push down on a spring and that should allow the lock cylinder to pull out

Thu Jul 09, 2020 12:17 am

Since the ‘71 switch had the wires soldered to the switch you need to create some slack in the wires. Pull them from the trunk area into the space below the steering column. This means disconnecting at least the wires for the ignition switch electrical and feeding them into the cabin.’
Once there is enough slack you should be able to pull the switch assembly out of the column housing. Sometimes it helps to rotate the steering wheel back and forth or 90deg to release the lock bar from the flat on the steering shaft.

Thu Jul 09, 2020 7:30 am

I searched for the small hole to release the lock cylinder, but dont see one. Do I need to drop the column away from the dash to access that hole?
Thanks.

Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:46 am

this is what I have

this is the position the key is in

I tried turning the steering wheel, lock to lock, to see if at some point the lock
cylinder would release. it didnt.

Thu Jul 09, 2020 7:31 pm

If you can turn the steering wheel thru its full range of motion it means the lock bolt is not engaged and not holding the ignition assembly in the steering column.
Look up from the bottom of the steering column housing where the wires enter the ignition switch. How much slack do you have? Normally most of the slack in the wires are pulled into the trunk so it doesn't hang below the steering column. With no slack, you won't be able to pull the ignition switch up and out of the column housing. You need to remove the ignition switch assembly before you can remove the small screw holding the electrical part in the assembly. To get the assembly out of the top of the steering column housing you will need at least 6-inches of slack in the wires.

Watch this video.

It is from a later SB so there are some differences. But at the 2:15 point in the video he begins to remove the two screws holding the ignition switch assembly in place. You can see him pull the entire assembly out of the housing. The difference you will have will be the wires will still be connected to the bottom of the assembly. His later switch you can see he removed the plug... your switch will have the wires soldered to the switch. You need to create enough slack to remove the assembly. Once clear of the housing you can remove the small screw and the electrical portion will come free from the ignition switch assembly.

Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:14 am

Got it removed. It was hanging up on a part of the housing that formed a "lip", at the front. Once I was able to get it above that, it wiggled out.

On the lower photo, you can see a small spring. I think by looking at Ashmans write up, that it probably belonged inside the electrical part of the switch, and somehow it came loose and became wedged where it is, jamming things up. Ashman, if you see this, can you please confirm, that there is not a spring like that in the mechanical part? Is there any maintenance I should do to the mechanical part? Without taking it apart, there is not much I can do.
Thanks.

Fri Jul 10, 2020 7:24 pm

Well, I bought a new electrical portion of the switch. Its the same, so I guess that spring I found must be from the mechanical side. Guess Ill be buying that next. Unfortunately, Im sure it will be aftermarket (chinese)

Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:34 am

On, my '71 ignition switch assembly there were no springs in the mechanical lock part of the assembly. But I didn't disassemble the bolt part. I only separated the three components pictured above. There were no loose springs in any of them.

With the electrical part of the ignition switch removed, does the key and locking bolt work smoothly?

One problem that has been reported in this forum is that new aftermarket switches are not making proper electrical contact. It is a problem with the new electrical switch internals. If the electrical switch is removed from the assembly and turned with a screwdriver it works fine. But when installed into the ignition switch assembly the key has a limited range of rotation and will not rotate the electrical part enough to close the contacts. Test this by working the electrical part of the switch in the assembly and outside the assembly. I believe the fix was to open up the new switch and polish contacts and bend parts so they make better contact when turned into position.

Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:38 pm

The mechanical part works smoothly, the sweep is about 45 degrees right to left, there are no detents or positions. I just went and slid the mechanical portion into the steering column, and now I can feel a first position, I assume this is on, and then I can turn against the spring to start. I had been concerned that the mechanical part was faulty because I couldnt feel any detents, but apparently you dont feel that until you insert into the column.